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Thread: True colors showing after election...

  1. #1
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    True colors showing after election...

    After months of telling the American people that he supports the Second Amendment, and only hours after being declared the president-elect, the Obama transition team website http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/ announced their real gun agenda--four initiatives designed to ban guns and drive law-abiding firearm manufacturers and dealers out of business. Interesting how the official website www.barackobama.com was devoid of this info during the campaign. If you look under “Issues”, “other issues” you will find a blurb about hunting and fishing etc. and nature conservancy. Sorry, the Second Amendment isn’t about hunting as a right..
    There were 4 presidential debates where the moderators asked not one question about Obama’s gun policies. Joe Biden even criticized Obama’s position on guns when they were running against each other, the “Daily Show” actually ran a video of it. The statement was-
    “In an out-of-nowhere attempt to re-assure a southwestern Virginia labor crowd about gun owners’ rights, Biden — who regularly scores “F” ratings from the National Rifle Association — warned Obama that if “he tries to fool with my Beretta, he’s got a problem.”
    “I guarantee you Barack Obama ain’t taking my shotguns, so don’t buy that malarkey,” Biden said Saturday at the United Mine Workers of America’s annual fish fry in Castlewood, Virginia. “Don’t buy that malarkey. They’re going to start peddling that to you.”
    Biden told the crowd that he himself is a gun owner. “I got two,” Biden said, “if he tries to fool with my Beretta, he’s got a problem. I like that little over and under, you know? I’m not bad with it. So give me a break. Give me a break.”
    Lets look at four items mentioned on the Obama transition website-
    "Making the expired federal assault weapons ban permanent." Perhaps no other firearm issue has been more dishonestly portrayed by gun prohibitionists. Notwithstanding their predictions that the ban's expiration in 2004 would bring about the end of civilization, for the last four years the nation's murder rate has been lower than anytime since the mid-1960s. Studies for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the National Institute of Justice, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that gun prohibition or gun control reduces crime. Guns that were affected by the ban are used in only a tiny fraction of violent crime-about 35 times as many people are murdered without any sort of firearm (knives, bare hands, etc.), as with "assault weapons." Obama says that "assault weapons" are machine guns that "belong on foreign battlefields," but that is a lie; the guns are only semi-automatic, and they are not used by a military force anywhere on the planet.
    "Closing the gun show loophole." There is no "loophole." Under federal law, a firearm dealer must conduct a background check on anyone to whom he sells a gun, regardless of where the sale takes place. A person who is not a dealer may sell a gun from his personal collection without conducting a check. Gun prohibitionists claim that many criminals obtain guns from gun shows, though the most recent federal survey of convicted felons put the figure at only 0.7 percent. They also claim that non-dealers should be required to conduct checks when selling guns at shows, but the legislation they support goes far beyond imposing that lone requirement. In fact, anti-gun members of Congress voted against that limited measure, holding out for a broader bill intended to drive shows out of business.
    "Making guns in this country childproof." "Childproof" is a codeword for a variety of schemes designed to prevent the sale of firearms by imposing impossible or highly expensive design requirements, such as biometric shooter-identification systems. While no one opposes keeping children safe, the fact is that accidental firearm-related deaths among children have decreased 86 percent since 1975, even as the numbers of children and guns have risen dramatically. Today, the chances of a child being killed in a firearm accident are less than one in a million. Swimming pools and bicycles claim more lives…

    "Repeal the Tiahrt Amendment." The amendment--endorsed by the Fraternal Order of Police--prohibits the release of federal firearm tracing information to anyone other than a law enforcement agency conducting a bona fide criminal investigation. Anti-gun activists oppose the restriction, because it prevents them from obtaining tracing information and using it in frivolous lawsuits against law-abiding firearm manufacturers. Their lawsuits seek to obtain huge
    "When there aren't enough criminals, one MAKES them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. ... Create a nation of law-breakers, and then you cash in on the guilt."

    -- Ayn Rand Atlas Shrugged

    "How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded, controlled, supervised, and taken care of."
    -- Former Rep. Suzanna Gratia Hupp (TX)

  2. #2
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    interesting!!

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    While you are right on every point you make, my friend, this information is not different from what was on his campaign website...

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    so where are the THR members who were parroting last week that "obama supports the second amendment"?

    seems that, for about the 12,213,376,596th time, you can't believe anything a politician says. you can only judge what s/he does. and what this one does, may severely and permanently damage RKBA in this country. i fear for what is to come...
    prior planning prevents piss-poor performance.
    --my dad

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    We need to deluge his inbox in protest. There is a contact link on his transition website.

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    Interesting how the official website www.barackobama.com was devoid of this info during the campaign.
    I don't believe that is entirely accurate, I think the 2nd amendment statement on the campaign site was pretty clear. I have no idea if people read it. If the local college paper is any indication, it seems like racism was as much a reason for many people as real issues.

    http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/
    Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
    I believe I first referenced that page at least a month before the election.
    Every social movement (*snip*) that tries to break the bonds of mindless convention and tradition and that defies established privilege gets accused of being rude and worse, much worse, and there are always weak apologists for the status quo who use that pathetic etiquette excuse to try and silence the revolutionaries. Successful revolutionaries ignore the admonitions about which fork to use for their salad because they care only to grab the steak knife as they launch themselves over the table. -- Richard Dawkins

  7. #7
    Hypothetical situation:

    I have several guns all registered.

    In my state you don't have to keep any records for private sales.

    Some or all of my guns are declared illegal and the government wants me to turn them in.

    I say I sold them all because I needed the money. Sorry.

    How is the government going to get my guns?

    Sure I am in possession of guns which is illegal but other than that too bad.

    I might also be one of the few who are willing to fight and die to keep my guns. Are you?

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    I have several guns all registered.

    In my state you don't have to keep any records for private sales.

    Some or all of my guns are declared illegal and the government wants me to turn them in.

    I say I sold them all because I needed the money. Sorry.

    How is the government going to get my guns?

    Sure I am in possession of guns which is illegal but other than that too bad.

    I might also be one of the few who are willing to fight and die to keep my guns. Are you?
    Wouldn't they want the names of those you sold them to? Also, how would you know before hand that they are coming to your house for your guns?

    If I got wind that they were doing searches for guns, I have a feeling that there would be several fellows in here going and digging some holes before the authorities would arrive.

    I would fight to the bitter end to protect my guns. If I have to die to protect my rights and ability to protect my family, you better believe I would. I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever to whoever if they came to my door trying to collect my guns. Nothing personal, but when you come to my house to take away my family's means of protection, it just became personal.

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    Most disturbing is Obama's interest a civilian Homeland Security Force as well armed and large as the military. This would give him a paramilitary organization that doesn't require Congressional authority to conduct operations in the US. It would answer to a cabinet official appointed by Obama. Homeland security bothered some folks even when overseen by President Bush, who could be trusted to act in the best interest of the people. In the wrong hands a National Police Force could become something the average American would have a reason to fear. Call me paranoid, but the next 1 to 2 years could prove to be critical to our Constitution and not only the RKBA, but other rights as well. Let 's pray that nothing happens to trigger a national emergency, or martial law giving the 'chosen one' an opportunity to invoke special powers. That's when a gun grab and the suspension of habeas corpus could take place. I trust this man no further than I can throw him and that's not very far at all. But hey, Oprah says he's the one and Louis Farrakahn referred to him as the messiah. What better endorsement does one need?

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    We're all gonna have to work very hard for the next four years to stop obama's plans, especially now that the dems have a majority in both houses.

    All I have to say is thanks bush.
    When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.
    Robert A. Heinlein

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    I'm seeing an immediate deluge of executive orders within the first month or so - bans on imported ammunition, imported gun parts, and imported magazines. Then comes the push for an AWB upon the first "mass shooting" that kills more than 2 people.
    Gun control is archaic, outdated, ageist, racist, classist, and sexist. It has no place in a modern, tolerant, and liberal society. Being pro-gun is a liberal value.

    armedbuddhist.blogspot.com

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    We're all gonna have to work very hard for the next four years to stop obama's plans, especially now that the dems have a majority in both houses.
    The dems have already had a majority in both houses for some time. Why is it different this time?
    Every social movement (*snip*) that tries to break the bonds of mindless convention and tradition and that defies established privilege gets accused of being rude and worse, much worse, and there are always weak apologists for the status quo who use that pathetic etiquette excuse to try and silence the revolutionaries. Successful revolutionaries ignore the admonitions about which fork to use for their salad because they care only to grab the steak knife as they launch themselves over the table. -- Richard Dawkins

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    Because now, with Obama moving into the White house, there will be nothing to check the legislative power of the Dem Controlled congress. When the draft for the permanent AWB is sent to Obama for his signature, he will sign it. The Dems wouldn't send that same bill to Pres. Bush for his signature, cuz he wouldn't sign it. That's why it's so different now.

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    Because now, with Obama moving into the White house, there will be nothing to check the legislative power of the Dem Controlled congress. When the draft for the permanent AWB is sent to Obama for his signature, he will sign it. The Dems wouldn't send that same bill to Pres. Bush for his signature, cuz he wouldn't sign it. That's why it's so different now.
    You are aware that bush said he would sign it right?

    The Bush administration is bucking the National Rifle Association and supporting a renewal of the assault weapons ban, set to expire just before the presidential election. "The president supports the current law, and he supports reauthorization of the current law," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told Knight Ridder.
    Now I suppose he could have been lying but the fact remains that we had a democratically controlled house and senate, a president who said he'd sign an AWB and no AWB could begin to get traction. I think that speaks volumes about what those representative view as a good or bad decision for their careers.
    Every social movement (*snip*) that tries to break the bonds of mindless convention and tradition and that defies established privilege gets accused of being rude and worse, much worse, and there are always weak apologists for the status quo who use that pathetic etiquette excuse to try and silence the revolutionaries. Successful revolutionaries ignore the admonitions about which fork to use for their salad because they care only to grab the steak knife as they launch themselves over the table. -- Richard Dawkins

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    Now I suppose he could have been lying but the fact remains that we had a democratically controlled house and senate, a president who said he'd sign an AWB and no AWB could begin to get traction. I think that speaks volumes about what those representative view as a good or bad decision for their careers.
    That legislative process is sure a messy impediment to being Ruler of the World ...
    Governments don't live together. People live together.

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    And the assault weapons ban in congress this year was introduced by Republicans.

    The only way to stop a ban is huge pressure on your congressmen. If a bill ever gets out of Congress it will be signed regardless of who's president.
    Taking the high road does not always, if ever, mean taking the middle road.

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    None of this is news. It was right here on his campaign website:

    Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
    But as of Nov 9, all mention of the words "gun", "assault" and "firearm" have been removed from change.gov. I'm sure that this will be dismissed simply as deception by many, but it may well mean that gun bans just aren't a priority to the Obama administration.
    Last edited by DaveBeal; November 9th, 2008 at 12:25 PM.

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    The only way to stop a ban is huge pressure on your congressmen. If a bill ever gets out of Congress it will be signed regardless of who's president
    Even Palin?

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    Homeland security bothered some folks even when overseen by President Bush, who could be trusted to act in the best interest of the people.
    Is this meant to be sarcastic?
    "Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." - Frederic Bastiat, The Law

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    Because now, with Obama moving into the White house, there will be nothing to check the legislative power of the Dem Controlled congress. When the draft for the permanent AWB is sent to Obama for his signature, he will sign it. The Dems wouldn't send that same bill to Pres. Bush for his signature, cuz he wouldn't sign it. That's why it's so different now.
    What Dems? The 2008 assault weapons ban was introduced and co-sponsored by Republicans only. The Dems had nothing to do with it - except to keep it from coming out of committee.
    Taking the high road does not always, if ever, mean taking the middle road.

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    Dale,

    You are right that it was introduced by the Republicans recently and I wrote about it elsewhere.

    Bush would have signed it the last time if Congress wanted it... so much for his, errrr, never mind.

    Catherine
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    Do NOT trust the R or D parties! Speak up to both or more parties!

    Take a stand, speak up, write, call, join one or more PRO gun organizations, refuse to accept compromise, spread the word about any LOSS of a firearm or freedom issue!

    Catherine
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    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...56C0A9659C8B63

    You're right. Bush supports the assault weapons ban. Republicans introduced an assault weapons ban, and Democrats didn't let it out of committee.
    Taking the high road does not always, if ever, mean taking the middle road.

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    Dale,

    Yes, and people do not follow on what Bush said all along about signing it if it went through CONGRESS. Ggrrrr.

    The other latest deal proposed by the R party hardly got ANY attention on gun boards because people think that an R or a D means x, y or z in PRO and/or ANTI GUN Rights/Issues.

    They refuse to think outside of the BOX and that goes for ALL firearm - freedom issues.

    Gun and financial control = Control!

    Catherine
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  25. #25
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    The other latest deal proposed by the R party hardly got ANY attention on gun boards because people think that an R or a D means x, y or z in PRO and/or ANTI GUN Rights/Issues.

    They refuse to think outside of the BOX and that goes for ALL firearm - freedom issues.

    Gun and financial control = Control!
    No kidding. They're all in the same game. They just sometimes have different ideas about how they want to run your life.
    "Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." - Frederic Bastiat, The Law

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