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Thread: Visual thoughts

  1. #1
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    Visual thoughts



    What now?



    Oleg Volk
    A Human Right | Blog

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    Powerful images.
    Good work.

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    Good point. I wish that more people understood that.
    Governments don't live together. People live together.

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    I'm ready to fight for 2A
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    I don't recall the US FedGov ever rounding up peaceful Indians with the intent to slaughter them. What anti-American History are you guys checking? Bad things happened to them at times, but it was never on the level of the Holocaust.
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  6. #6
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    Not quite on the same level, but not different in intent in some times and places.
    Oleg Volk
    A Human Right | Blog

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    Not only was it not the same level, the intent was never on the same level. It wasn't in the same league. I cannot recall it ever having been an actual government policy, at any time, to just exterminate the Indians. While some Fed Agents may have gone rogue and caused troubles, it was never policy.

    There are leagues of difference.
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    The first one makes me think about Abraham Maslow.

    Clothing before protection? Shirt or a rifle? Bah.

  9. #9
    Speaking of the Native Americans, I think a modern variation on the these popular tee shirts might do well in border states.

    http://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredeta...colorNo=4&pr=F

  10. #10
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    I don't recall the US FedGov ever rounding up peaceful Indians with the intent to slaughter them.
    The civil and church leaders of Boston sent clothing and bedding from the people who died of a smallpox epidemic to the Natick indian tribe with the knowledge and intent that the indians would become sick and die. The entire tribe was wiped out. 1600's

    The same tactic was repeated during the westward expansion to and across the Alleghanies, up and down the Ohio, Missippi and Missouri Rivers, in Florida and Georgia, across the prairie and the southwest as far as the Rockies. It was either done with the blessings of the local/state/territorial government or at least with no action on the part of the civil authorities to stop, prevent, or prosecute those who were the direct actors. 1600's - 1800's

    Bad things happened to them at times, but it was never on the level of the Holocaust.
    Does it need to raise to the level of the Holocaust before it becomes unacceptable? Does it need to involve physical relocation as part of the process before it becomes unacceptable?

    The point being that our form of government says (so far) that there are certain unalienable rights, and that any action by the government to limit our ability to preserve those rights is a Bad Thing. Having the political will to resist a corrupt government does not accomplish much if those with the will have no way of enforcing it. If you recall, Hitler was democratically and fairly elected into office - afterwards he changed the rules so he could not be unelected. Many Germans were not pleased with that, but had no way of standing up against the new regiem.

    If my vote no longer counts, what good is it? Does your state have a recall mechanism for elected officials who no longer represent the people who put them in office? If so, what will it take to get the majority of voters to agree that it is time to implement that process, let alone vote the rascals out? It's much like the old saw: "If it's time to bury them, it's time to dig the up."

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    While it may be fun to soar with the eagles, no weasel has ever been sucked into a jet intake. ((c), TM/SM 19xx - 20xx)

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    First photo reminds me of Pvt. Pyle from Full Metal Jacket..
    Mick

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    skidmark,

    Our government was not around in the 1600's. Shifting blame like you are doing is absurd.

    As far as giving infected blankets though, consider this. It is not very likely that the people alive in that time frame really understood the germ theory very well. Your entire premise is based on the intentional attempt to inflict the disease, as if they knew what they were doing. Germ theory seems obvious to us, it was likely far less so to the average person 200 years ago.

    Secondly, we had wars with them. We won, we shoved them back. Was it an attempt at genocide? No, it was expansion. It was, in fact, benevolent. Normally the conquered people were enslaved or massacred. We were nice enough to at least not do either, though our solution was not particularly nice (by modern standards).
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    Oh, Look! A Daisy!

    I don't suppose we could actually stay on topic?


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    Arfin,
    What has been off-topic? (and I think Oleg can handle this since he started the thread -- he's an admin just like you.) Maybe you are taking yourself too seriously? I've seen the other threads where folks have been baiting you, I don't think that's happening here.

    Respectfully,
    Bob
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    I don't get the first one (without a shirt.) Sorry. It's not a bad pic artistically, but what is it trying to say?
    "Nobody wins in a Dairy Challenge" —Kenny Rogers

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    Oh, Look! A Daisy!
    I dunno; it could be a Venus fly trap, Arfin.
    (Says a biologist with a substantial background in botany.)

    My strong sense is that Oleg, being an intelligent person with a better than average understanding of history, is not equating those historical situations. He is not suggesting that the way the American Indians were treated is the same as how the Jews were treated in Nazi-dominated Europe.

    He is simply making the valid point that one way a government controls people is to restrict access to weapons, whether with Jews, Indians, Kulaks or - his main point in this case - us. Each case is different. But all have the commonality of weapons restrictions or surrender of weapons.

    Published history records show clearly that American Indians were forced on more than one occasion to surrender their weapons. They never experienced a holocaust like the Jews, and their circumstances were different from Kulaks, but that's NOT Oleg's point.

    So, let's review. It's about confiscation of weapons, not a comparison of other details.
    _________

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    If Nemat is right, then I would be inclined to agree. It is worth noting, if Nemat is right, the poster failed as it conveys the wrong message. If people get the wrong message, the intended meaning is of no value.
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    OP is a point of view, designed and posted to provoke thought.

    Does it match yours?

    Does it provoke your pet issue?

    Do you agree?

    Disagree?

    Me? I think it's working ....
    The ONLY thing certain in life is DEATH. Live each day to its' FULLEST!

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    As with most forms of communication, it depends on the intended audience and what reaction one wishes to provoke in them.

    Most members of THR will get the points immediately, and mostly agree.

    If, on the other hand, these images are intended for the unconverted, this reader's humble opinion is that the smokestack one is over the top. It matters not whether any of the historical analogies are valid or not. The graphic is asking the (unconverted) viewer to think it credible that the US government, perhaps later than sooner, is going to load US citizens into boxcars and take them off to extermination camps. Rightly or wrongly, most people are going to think that is nuts. The message to them will fail.

    A more effective image might be something like holding off looters in NOLA or elsewhere, or even a group of black folk holding off Klansmen -- preferably with a date where such actually happened. That will resonate with the unconverted, or at least make them think for a moment.

    As always, just MHO.

    regards,

    GR

    PS to Oleg: I know what a "kulak" is, and of course you know what a "kulak" is, but I am not sure that even 100% of THR ... much less a large pecentage of average Americans ... will know immediately what a "kulak" is. Given the graphic, they'll think "Jews/ovens/Holocaust", regardless of what else the text says. This comment is intended as helpful. I want your stuff to work.
    Last edited by Gentleman Ranker; November 10th, 2008 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Add a thought.

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    As with most forms of communication, it depends on the intended audience and what reaction one wishes to provoke in them.

    Most members of THR will get the points immediately, and mostly agree.

    If, on the other hand, these images are intended for the unconverted...
    Oleg - do you ever take these types of images to non-gun people? Print them off and go to grocery stores, gas stations, etc? e.g "Look at this flyer I found on the ground, what do you think it means?"


    I'm getting the distinct impression that you are trying to put RKBA in a good context for those that might not have an opinion or even persuade people who might be against guns in general.

  21. #21
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    I like the first one - it says, to me, "I am naked without a firearm." Heheheh.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffe
    Oleg - do you ever take these types of images to non-gun people?
    Coffe, have you explored the following web site? -----------------------> {Click on this link}

    It's linked in Oleg's sig line, too.
    Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.

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    A suggestion.

    I just ran across a post at David Hardy's blog "Of Arms and the Law" that made me think of something.

    The post is, in general, about the improvement of race relations in the US over time, and Mr. Hardy cites former civil rights worker Joe Olsen as saying:

    (3) In my first real post-college job, in 1967, I had folks in bed sheets shooting at my co-workers and harassing me until I bought a gun and waved it at them. Merely because was I was white, had Missouri plates, and was helping Negroes (time-warp term) gain equal opportunity . (Yes, I was an "outside agitator" to them. Deliberately.) People like me had been killed just three years earlier.
    How about a poster/graphic of that, with Mr. Olsen's permission and endorsement of course, and if possible a quote from Mr. Olsen. Plays the "basic human right" angle in a way that people will understand viscerally here in the US. Guns --> Rights. Civil rights. For black people. Here in the US, in living memory.

    First black president. Guns helped get him there. Nice resonance, don't you think?

    I certainly understand Oleg's orientation towards European history, but regrettably some of those things may not resonate as well with Americans as something more home-grown. And this would be topical.

    Just a thought.

    regards,

    GR

    PS: FWIW, I remember seeing "Whites" and "Colored" signs when I was young (< 10) and we were traveling through rural North Carolina. Felt creepy, even then.

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    Coffe, have you explored the following web site? -----------------------> {Click on this link}
    I've seen the site!

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