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Thread: Rosenthal article on HuffPo

  1. #1
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    Rosenthal article on HuffPo

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-r..._b_142783.html

    John Rosenthal
    Posted November 10, 2008 | 04:48 PM (EST)
    What President Obama can do to reduce Gun Violence
    President Elect Obama should implement 7 tested and proven initiatives that will have an immediate impact on reducing gun related violence, accidents and suicides without affecting the Second Amendment or having any negative impact on responsible and law abiding gun owners

    Of the average 34,000 gun deaths in the US every year approximately 11,000 are homicides, 18,000 are suicides and 5,000 are unintentional accidents. We can change these horrific numbers.

    If I were President Obama, one of my first acts would be the immediate implementation the following gun violence prevention initiatives to reduce gun access by children, criminals and terrorists without any undue restrictions on responsible gun owners like myself.

    #1 Mandatory criminal background checks for all gun sales
    Current Federal law only requires Licensed gun dealers to perform criminal background checks. Consequently in 32 States "private dealers"/individuals can legally sell guns at thousands of annual gun shows, countless flea markets and yard sales, and out of homes, backpacks, car trunks or on street corners without running a background check or asking to see an ID. Only the first gun sale from a "Federally Licensed" gun dealer requires documentation and all "secondary" gun sales are legally allowed to take place without any paperwork or record keeping. As a result, convicted felons and suspected terrorists can and do buy guns simply because there is no background check required or conducted.

    #2 Require responsible and safe gun storage for all firearms unless they are in the owners direct control
    Approximately 40% of American homes have at least one firearm. Most guns used in child accidental gun injuries and deaths and teenage suicides come from within the home. Responsible guns owners safely secure their guns -unloaded and locked unless they are in their direct control. Seventeen States have such a safe-storage/Child Access Prevention requirement and all such states have a lower incidence of gun injuries and deaths among children compared to states without such a requirement.

    #3 Allow Law Enforcement to maintain and share critical "crime-gun" trace data
    Current Federal law prohibits the BATF from sharing crime gun trace data even among law enforcement agencies. In 2000 the BATF used crime-gun trace data to determine that just 1% of licensed gun dealers provided 57% of guns used in crime. Instead of supporting law enforcement efforts to identify and arrest illegal gun dealers, the Bush administration made police the enemy of "gun rights", requiring prison sentences for any police official that shares crime-gun trace data with even other law enforcement.

    #4 Restore and improve the Federal Ban on Assault Weapons
    The 10 year Federal ban on 19 specific military style assault weapons beginning in 1994 was supported by every major US law enforcement organization representing over 450,000 police officers. Although so called assault weapons make up approximately 1% of the US gun stock, statistics clearly show that they are the weapon of choice by gangs, career criminals and terrorist organizations and disproportionately show up in crimes. The Bush administration let the ban expire in 2004 even though the ban resulted in a dramatic 66% reduction in these weapons used in crime over the 10 year period.

    #5 Repeal the Federal law giving Immunity to the gun industry
    In 2007 Congress and the Bush administration enacted legislation prohibiting the ability to sue the gun industry even for negligence and blatantly marketing to criminals. For instance, the Tech 9 semi-automatic pistol, one of the guns used at the Columbine High School massacre, was marketed as "having a finish resistant to fingerprints", the Hertzel 22 cal handgun is marketed as "capable of penetrating 48 layers of soft body armor" and the Barrett 50 cal sniper rifle with a 2 mile range and designed to penetrate steel, is touted as being able to "take down an aircraft with one shot" and they tell you where to put it. Osama bin Laden bought a dozen of these US made Barrett's when fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan! The gun industry makes, markets and sells inherently dangerous product (like automobiles, knives and drugs- all regulated) and they should be held accountable for their actions.

    #6 Enact National Consumer Product Safety Commission regulations for firearms
    Congress has prohibited the National Consumer Product Safety Commission from oversight of the gun industry. Therefore guns have NO consumer safety, manufacturing or marketing standards for how they are sold. Consequently toy guns and teddy bears have more regulations on how they're made than real guns that result in an average of 34,000 deaths a year in the US. The gun industry flaunts their "freedom" from regulation and continues to make and sell guns without minimal safety features and in some cases knowingly market their deadly products directly to criminals and terrorists without any accountability. Massachusetts, which is home to Smith and Wesson, the nation's largest handgun manufacturer, enacted the first in the nation Consumer Protection regulations for firearms and such oversight had no negative impacts on legitimate gun makers, dealers or buyers in the State.


    #7 Create incentives for the gun industry to make "personalized guns"
    According to gun maker Smith and Wesson, guns could be made with personal recognition technology such that only the intended user could fire the gun. This practical technological solution would save the lives of countless victims of gun violence, accidents and suicides each year. It could also help save the lives of the 17% of police officers killed in the line of duty by a criminal accessing the officer's gun. In fact, in an agreement with the Clinton administration, Smith and Wesson promised to invest a portion of net profits into "personalized gun technology".


    If President Obama and Congress were to enact just these 7 national gun violence prevention initiates, the 34,000 annual gun deaths and 80,000 injuries would be reduced to a fraction without any undue hardship on responsible gun owners like myself. I'm hopeful. President-Elect Obama knows all too well that 70-80 percent of the 80 or more gun deaths every day in the US are non-white, urban Americans. He also knows that an overwhelming majority of Americans, including gun owners and law enforcement officers, support criminal background checks for all gun sales, the Ban on assault weapons and responsible safety standards and regulations for gun makers, dealers and owners that do not infringe upon Second Amendment rights.

    Now all that is needed is a loud public outcry and the political will for sensible and responsible domestic gun policy.
    *******
    *******

    Get used to this, pretty soon you'll see the same thoughts echoed from the MSM and the White House on a regular basis. -TT

  2. #2
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    This person's idea of stopping gun crime is to put all gun manufacturers out of business, require all legal gun owners to lock them away so they can not be used for defense, and give law enforcement unlimited powers to invade the privacy of any gun owner. He is a lunatic.

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    They are coming out of the wood work like crazy since the election.

    Helmke was on hours after the election with his new blathering agenda speech.
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    No argument on lunatic ...

    He's also lying his you know what off.

    Private sales are restricted to sales within state borders, and all of the states that I know of permitting such sales also require drivers license or other (similar) form of identification. Next, FFL's are required to 4473 and call in EVERY purchase, although there can be multiple purchases made on a single 4473 but they are noted at the time the sale is called in.

    Other stuff in that ramble, but why waste the time to point by point debunk this stuff. You should never argue with an idiot. Why? Becaue they will drag you down to their level and beat you on experience.
    The ONLY thing certain in life is DEATH. Live each day to its' FULLEST!

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    One of Many: This person's idea of stopping gun crime is to put all gun manufacturers out of business, require all legal gun owners to lock them away so they can not be used for defense, and give law enforcement unlimited powers to invade the privacy of any gun owner.
    An excellent summary. Also note though, the reference to Massachusetts’ law in section 6. Maybe one of our Massachusetts experts can chime in, but if I recall correctly it involves a minimum trigger pull for all guns without a manual safety- 10 pounds I believe. This would have a decidedly negative effect on most of the more recent handgun designs. I suspect it might be a pretty easy sell to the public though, who wouldn’t have much idea of what it really meant until they were standing at the gun counter wondering why the trigger on their Glock, Kahr, XD, etc. was so damn heavy.

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    7 tested and proven initiatives
    yup, throughly tested and proven to NOT WORK


    (like automobiles, knives and drugs- all regulated)
    so how about background checks and 4473s for all auto sales, and lets close that 'carshow loophole', and how about mandatory safe storage for all vehicles, we wouldn't want a criminal to steal a car and use it in a crime, or for a child to start one up and run himself over. Hell, while we're at it lets ban those SUVs and 4x4 trucks, nobody really needs all that steel anyway right?

    knives... see above

    since he wants to use drugs...they are all completely banned and yet somehow there are still drugs everywhere you go. But you know they're banned so there's no way for drugs to get into the hands of criminals, children and the mental deficient...
    "What's next?Maybe a ban on lips so you won't shoot your mouth off at someone?" ~Pbearperry

    "In fact, if I ever got shot while holding one, I fully expect the rifle to yell at me in Russian to get up and stop being such a pansy." ~CannonFodder in reference to the SKS

  7. #7
    Although so called assault weapons make up approximately 1% of the US gun stock, statistics clearly show that they are the weapon of choice by gangs, career criminals and terrorist organizations and disproportionately show up in crimes.
    Whaaaaaat?
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    #4 Restore and improve the Federal Ban on Assault Weapons
    The 10 year Federal ban on 19 specific military style assault weapons beginning in 1994 was supported by every major US law enforcement organization representing over 450,000 police officers.
    The opinion of "every major US law enforcement organization"
    is often inconsistent with the majority opinion of members,
    especially true of this very issue.

  9. #9
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    Private sales are restricted to sales within state borders
    Which means that the federal government CANNOT regulate those sales, since they have no bearing on interstate commerce.

    Not that these folks are particularly concerned about whether the laws they'll vote for are constitutional.


  10. #10
    (like automobiles, knives and drugs- all regulated)
    How in the hell are knives regulated? Is this guy living in another universe?

    President-Elect Obama knows all too well that 70-80 percent of the 80 or more gun deaths every day in the US are non-white, urban Americans.
    Not to sound racist but maybe, just maybe, an effort should be made to target violence in THOSE communities instead of screwing ME in Southern Indiana and other people all over the country who just want to be able to practice their shooting hobbies and exercise their constitutional right without the government sticking its paws in.

    For instance, the Tech 9 semi-automatic pistol, one of the guns used at the Columbine High School massacre, was marketed as "having a finish resistant to fingerprints", the Hertzel 22 cal handgun is marketed as "capable of penetrating 48 layers of soft body armor"
    If you're going to talk about guns the least you can do is spell Tec-9 properly, but these are after all the same people who brought us the "shoulder thing that goes up" - I guess expecting them to you know, maybe, understand the very objects that they are trying to gavel into nonexistence is asking too much. Also, I would love to know abut this "Hertzel 22" pistol. What on earth is he talking about? I searched for it on Google - got nothing.
    Last edited by Golden Hound; November 10th, 2008 at 11:18 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Also, I would love to know abut this "Hertzel 22" pistol. What on earth is he talking about? I searched for it on Google - got nothing.
    He's probably talking about the FN Herstal Five-seveN. (5.7mm = ~.22 cal)


    Basically, he has no idea what he's talking about.
    A lady asked Dr. Franklin: "Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy?" "A republic," replied the Doctor, "if you can keep it." -Anonymous, from Farrand's Records of the Federal Convention of 1787

  12. #12
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    He has made up his mind and cannot be confused with the facts

    FRom his Bio - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-rosenthal

    In October 1995, as a gun owner, recreational Trap Shooter and businessperson John founded Stop Handgun Violence. The organization has been symbolized by a large 252 feet long and 20 feet high biilboard that he built on the side of a parking garage that he owns along the Massachusetts Turnpike near Boston’s Fenway Park. The billboard campaign has dramatically communicated the extent of the national gun violence problem as well as practical solutions and need for effective uniform national gun laws and initiatives.

    Stop Handgun Violence was the lead advocate for Massachusetts enacting the most comprehensive gun laws and first in the nation consumer protection regulations for firearms and MA is among the top three states with the lowest firearm fatality rate (3.2 per vs. 10.6 per 100,000 popoulation national average) in the United States.

    In 2005 John co-founded a new membership organization called American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA). AHSA is an alternative membership organization to the NRA for moderate gun owners who care about gun rights as well as gun safety, conservation and wildlife habitat and support for law enforcement.
    -Learn2Shoot
    Join or renew your NRA membership for $25 at www.discovershooting.net


    If we fail to elect pro-gun politicians to Congress and fire those who are anti-gun, it won't matter who the President is.
    If we succeed at electing pro-gun politicians to Congress and fire those who are anti-gun, it won't matter who the President is.
    http://www.gunvoter.com

  13. #13
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    It could also help save the lives of the 17% of police officers killed in the line of duty by a criminal accessing the officer's gun.
    I wonder what part of him those numbers were pulled out of. In 2007 2 police officers were killed with their own weapons (0 in 2006), and 55 officers were killed with handguns total. How is that 17%?
    Every social movement (*snip*) that tries to break the bonds of mindless convention and tradition and that defies established privilege gets accused of being rude and worse, much worse, and there are always weak apologists for the status quo who use that pathetic etiquette excuse to try and silence the revolutionaries. Successful revolutionaries ignore the admonitions about which fork to use for their salad because they care only to grab the steak knife as they launch themselves over the table. -- Richard Dawkins

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    Of the average 34,000 gun deaths in the US every year approximately 11,000 are homicides, 18,000 are suicides and 5,000 are unintentional accidents. We can change these horrific numbers.
    That one caught my eye. 5000 accident-related firearms fatalities a year? Where on earth did they get that from? If you read the DOJ report, firearm deaths in the US dropped below 30k 10 years ago and presumably are still dropping. Where are they getting 34k from?

    Anyway, of that 30k, 17k were suicides, 12k homicides, 800 accidents and 200 undetermined.

    It looks like they decided to just take the actual figures and then multiply the accidents by about 6 to come up with a scary number. People actually believe this crap!

    800 fatal accidents out of a population of 300 million is pretty damn small. I'm thinking that breathing is probably more dangerous. Especially when you consider that the rate has been dropping steadily. It is probably 500 or less a year nowadays (2001 being the newest data). You can read my source here:
    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/frmdth.htm

    I'd love to see them justify their insane made-up numbers.

    I'm sure 99% of the rest of his crap is made-up too, but that just really stood out to me.

    Edit: while Googling for stats, I saw this article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113094,00.html. Apparently Rosenthal and his cronies aren't the only ones willing to make up statistics.

    Dope
    Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars. -griz

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    Although so called assault weapons make up approximately 1% of the US gun stock, statistics clearly show that they are the weapon of choice by gangs, career criminals and terrorist organizations and disproportionately show up in crimes.
    The way that he's able to say this is that an "assault weapon" has no definite meaning. It can mean anything and everything he wants it to mean. Change the definition to a gun that is able to accept removable magazines and now disproportionately everything is an "assault weapon".

    This time, though, it seems like he changes the meaning mid-sentence since it is impossible that he is talking about the same EBR's showing up surprisingly often in crime reports.

    Terrorist organizations using firearms? They'd get killed by armed citizens.

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    and all of the states that I know of permitting such sales also require drivers license or other (similar) form of identification.
    ??? No such requirement in your state of Ohio.
    Send lawyers, guns, and money . . .

  17. #17
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    I'm glad ALL of the comments on that blog, to this point in time, are universally against the writer.
    NRA Life Member
    1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a
    firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for
    traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

  18. #18
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    Biden, Brady, Rosenthal, makes no difference, facts are irrelevant. They are elitist and their gut feelings are worth way more than the 2nd amendment and cold hard facts. If we lay down and just let them control every aspect of our lives we will all be happy and the lamb and the lion can lay together and munch on soy burgers. Muggers will take up macrame and terrorists will take up wheat growing.

    Now if he could only fix the biased news programs, sometimes they get it right and that is so depressing. I only want to hear about how terrible everything is and how some kindergartner should have known better to take a play gun to school and deserves to be suspended for a year. Now thats the kind of news we need to hear. If we keep going on this way people will begin to believe people have a right to carry guns with them to public events making mall shootings and school massacres hazardous to the nut jobs hazardous. We can't have people violating their civil rights by defending ourself.

    Thank You Mr. Rosenthal for making me see the error of my thinking. I will immediately dismantle all of my weapons and lock them up in different locations. Then I will bury all of my dangerous ammunition in a very deep hole where they can no longer be a danger to Bambi and Thumper. I don't know what I have been thinking of all these years. Oh yes, I almost forgot, I have a collection of knives and swords.

    Will some kind soul please send me the regulations regarding them so I can make them safe for the public. I wouldn't want anybody to pick one up and go beserk because of the evil vibrations and start hacking and slashing women and children. I will take my Old Zorro, Robinhood and Douglas Fairbanks movies out to the burn barrel or is that illegal too. I am 7 miles from the nearest village and I wouldn't want to increase the risk of some kid at his game console in his airconditioned house to my noxious fumes. Maybe I had better just eat them.
    1934 – National Firearms Act, 1968 – The Gun Control Act, 1986 – Firearms Owners Protection Act, 1993 – Brady Handguns Violence Act, 1994 – Assault Weapons Ban, 1995 – Gun Free School Zones Act, NO MORE COMPROMISING

  19. #19
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    Only the first gun sale from a "Federally Licensed" gun dealer requires documentation and all "secondary" gun sales are legally allowed to take place without any paperwork or record keeping.
    Pretty sure this is false. Not an FFL, but I know I've had to fill out paper work for each gun purchased at the same dealer.

    EDIT: Yea just read further. There is a LOT of false statements in this one.

  20. #20
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    The socialist punishment of freedom-loving American citizens continues.
    No tyrant should ever be allowed to die a natural death.

  21. #21
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    This genius has obviously not allowed well known facts or FBI crime statistics to interfere with his agenda. It's so troubling when our preconceived notions turn out to be pure barnyard pavement.

    Not much more could be expected from the Puffington Host.

  22. #22
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    You want to stick it to this guy?

    Call his newspaper and accuse it of plagarizing. He cites none of his sources, and, therefore, he is claiming that all of the research presented was done by he himself.

    He will either be forced to resign or to put citations in his article. What happens if he is forced to cite? All of his lies disappear. The link would lead to a blank page.
    NRA Life Member, October 2009.
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  23. #23
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    Call his newspaper and accuse it of plagarizing. He cites none of his sources, and, therefore, he is claiming that all of the research presented was done by he himself.
    I've emailed scoop@huffingtonpost.com the following:

    John Rosenthal’s article “What President Obama can do to Reduce Gun Violence” cites no sources, although the first comment listed under the article lists several sources which contradict his claims.

    His article is either plagiaristic or erroneous – or possibly both.

    By refusing to cite his sources, he either manufactures deceit or conceals data provided by patently un-objective and un-reliable sources, such as the Brady Campaign or the Violence Policy Center, neither of which can be relied upon to provide accurate data, given their stated bias regarding firearms in the United States.

    In either event, the author fraudulently misrepresents facts either by manufacturing them or by misrepresenting the underlying research as his own.

    I request that accurate and complete citations be added to each assertion Mr. Rosenthal makes in his article.

    Thank you for your time.

    (elChupacabra!)
    I would encourage each of you to send a similar email.
    If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you. - Jack Handey

  24. #24
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    I've emailed scoop@huffingtonpost.com the following:
    Good on ya!

    Dear Sir/Ma'am,

    I couldn't help but notice that, in a recent editorial by John Rosenthal titled "What President Obama can do to reduce Gun Violence" published online on November 10, 2008, the author makes no effort to cite his sources. Not only is citing one's sources an essential part of journalism as a professional field, but it is necessary to avoid plagarism. One can only assume that either all of the so-called evidence therein is either grossly plagarized or decietfully manufactured. Either scenario is truly alarming to be considered acceptable conduct by a respectable newspaper.

    A reader,

    JCMAG
    NRA Life Member, October 2009.
    SAF Defender Club Member, January 2011.
    NRA Endowment Member, January 2011.

  25. #25
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    Right on JCMAG

    Come on guys,keep the comments coming.

    We've got to make our voice heard. I love seeing an anti-firearm article followed by about 95% negative comments. But this article crosses the line. Write a quick letter - it only takes 2 minutes. If you impeach the journalistic character of the author, you will hit close to home.
    If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you. - Jack Handey

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