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Thread: This Needs Readin'

  1. #1
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    This Needs Readin'

    This was originally posted on the other sight but It realy needs wider disemination

    This may be closer to reality than you think

    You're sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door. Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers. At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way. With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun. You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it. In the darkness, you make out two shadows.

    One holds something that looks like a crowbar. When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire. The blast knocks both thugs to the floor. One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside. As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble.

    In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few That are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless. Yours was never registered. Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died. They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm. When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.

    "What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask.

    "Only ten-to-twelve years," he replies, as if that's nothing. "Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."

    The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper. Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys. Their friends and relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them. Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times. But the next day's headline says it all: "Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die." The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters. As the days wear on, the story takes wings. The national media picks it up, then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.

    Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win. The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects. After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

    A few months later, you go to trial. The charges haven't been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted. When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you. Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man. It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges.

    The judge sentences you to life in prison.

    This case really happened.

    On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term.

    How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire ?

    It started with the Pistols Act of 1903. This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license. The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns.

    Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.

    Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed Man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw. When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

    The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

    Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.

    For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners. Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns. The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later,

    Sealed the fate of the few sidearm still owned by private citizens.

    During the years in which the British government incrementally took Away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism. Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun. Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

    Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, "We cannot have people take the law into their own hands."

    All of Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.

    When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities. Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply. Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

    How did the authorities know who had handguns? The guns had been registered and licensed. Kinda like cars.

    Sound familiar?

    WAKE UP AMERICA , THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.
    It is your dissatisfaction with what IS that is the source of all of your unhappiness. Matthew Scudder

  2. #2
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    A Clockwork Orange (1971) come to life.
    Brit writer Anthony Burgess saw the handwriting on the wall and was years ahead of his time.
    His nightmare vision for England has come true.

  3. #3
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    That is just plain scary. It gives "Molon Labe" a new perspective that might actually come to use.

  4. #4
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    Yes, he used a pump shotgun. And he shot them as they fled. That won't fly in the U.S. either. And then there was that little thing about shooting at a passing car that led to him losing his gun permit 6 years earlier.


    "Barras was shot in the back and died at the scene, while Fearon was shot in the leg and recovered after treatment in hospital."

    "Martin had been burgled so many times that he had set up an elaborate network of look-out ladders and traps, even removing a stair to hinder intruders."

    "But it emerged the pair had been shot as they tried to flee through a window."

    "Jurors also heard that Martin had a history of gun-related misbehaviour, including firing upon a car six years before - an incident which led to his shotgun certificate being revoked."

    "He began an appeal immediately. In court he argued he had suffered from a paranoid personality disorder which diminished his responsibility. His barrister told the court Martin had suffered sexual abuse as a child and "considered himself a boy of about ten"."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3009769.stm

  5. #5
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    Thanks for shedding some light on the story! Changes a lot of things.

  6. #6
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    In the story example ...

    What is fact?

    What is fiction or distortion of fact?

    Regardless ... removal of guns or even any other means of self-defense from law abiding citizens does not reduce crime. It in fact leads to increases in crime as the law breakers have less opposition to be concerned with.

    The root of the matter is the intent of the person holding/using the weapon, be it gun, knife, club ...

    .
    The ONLY thing certain in life is DEATH. Live each day to its' FULLEST!

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    The same story as linked by JohnBT also says the following about the attacker who survived:

    Fearon, who had more than 30 criminal convictions, is now trying to sue Martin for damages as a result of being shot. He has asked for a reported £15,000 for loss of earnings, claiming he can no longer enjoy sex or bear to see shootings on television. Fearon is himself currently in jail, after being convicted in February of this year on drugs charges and jailed for 18 months.
    It also says this about Martin:
    The parole board, however, has continually refused him early release - saying he has shown no remorse and would continue to pose a danger to any other burglars.
    So looking at the whole article and not knowing how biased it is against Martin but suspecting how the NY Times would write it up in the US, I'd say to Mr. Fearon "tough **** about no longer enjoying sex or watching shootings on TV"...and I'd also be in awe at the sheepfulness of the parole board who cares that Mr. Martin might be a continued threat against any other burglars who make the independent choice to invade his home.

    And I'd also point out that this case would probably "fly", in JohnBT's terms, in the US based on the recent rulings in the Texas case where the guy shot two people burglarizing his NEIGHBOR's home, preemptively declared his intentions to the 911 operator, and still wasn't sentenced. I believe there is still some hope for America.
    "In survival, you seize the high ground and set up a machine gun nest." Hardware on THR.us 1/7/10

  8. #8
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    You really think you can get away with shooting a burglar in the back and killing him as he crawls out a window?

    Good luck at trial. We'll come visit you on Sundays.

    John

  9. #9
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    There's a lot more to this story. For one, Mr. Martin did not report the shooting.

    Second, he only served 3 years.

    From the EDP24 site:

    "October 30, 2001
    Tony Martin's conviction is reduced to manslaughter. His setenced was reduced to five years — meaning he will be eligible for parole in a year.

    Freedom
    Tony Martin was released from custody on July 28, 2003. A Prison Service spokesman said he was released from an undisclosed location, adding: “He is now a free man.”
    Martin served two-thirds of a five-year jail term for shooting dead teenage burglar Fred Barras and wounding his accomplice Brendan Fearon during a raid at his isolated farmhouse at Emneth Hungate, near Wisbech in August 1999."


    And lastly, you know why those guys had all those run-ins with the law and why Mr. Martin was released to an undisclosed location? The same reason there was a rumored $50,000 bounty on Mr. Martin's head... the guys were Travellers, aka Irish gypsies.

    Anybody need their driveway paved, they just happen to have some leftover material from a job they just finished. Don't turn your back or leave the doors unlocked.
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    "Irish Travellers (Irish: Lucht siúil) are an itinerant people of Irish origin living in Ireland, Great Britain and the United States. It is estimated that 25,000 Travellers live in Ireland, between 200,000 and 300,000[1] in Great Britain, and 7,000 in the United States.

    Travellers refer to themselves as "Pavees", whereas some English people often refer to them with the derogatory terms "Pikeys", "Gypos" or "Jidders"."

  10. #10
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    Things are different in the US depending on which state you're in.

    Under Florida law, murder charges would be brought against the surviving burglar.

    A couple of years ago a local business was robbed here in Polk County. Woman running the place shot and killed one of the perps. The thug who was driving the get-away car was charged with his murder. And that's not an isolated example.

    And yes, the burglar climbing out the window is a fleeing felon, burglary is a forcible felony, and use of deadly force is legal in that instance.

  11. #11
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    Interesting post and replies...

    Just goes to show the two-sides-to-every-story...

    It seems like Martin didn't help himself very much, but it also seems like he was fighting an uphill battle.

    I'm glad I don't live across the pond.
    "Today, my friends, we each have one day less, every one of us. And joy is the only thing that slows the clock." -John D McDonald via Travis McGee

  12. #12
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    I don’t have the original source for the article, but I sincerely hope it wasn’t a RKBA organization that disseminated this w/ out telling both sides of the story (which I didn’t know until I read it here).
    That said, I believe Martin would have taken a severe beating had he not been armed even if he did over step by shooting the burglars as they were fleeing
    It is your dissatisfaction with what IS that is the source of all of your unhappiness. Matthew Scudder

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    The trend in the USA has been the opposite of GB - toward Castle Doctrine laws. GB is a good example of a system we want to avoid.

    The Castle Doctrine is state law and not national. It will always be state law because the constitution has never been construed to allow the Feds to make a local homicide a federal offense unless it is against a federal officer or in a federal facility.

    Pay attention to your state laws and preserve or restore the Castle Doctrine.
    --Kol Tuv (All the best!) - Stu

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  14. #14
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    I did not see the "true story" ending to that post coming It caught me by suprise.


    Note: he probably did not report the burglary because if he did...his unregistered shotgun would be taken away and he would go to jail...and of course he did:P
    You can't get into a boxing match with a Norinco 982!

  15. #15
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    I remember hearing about that when it happened... I remember the general sentiment was his sentence should be banishment to the USA where he'd be a hero.

    So, basically, he made the decision beforehand to break the law while defending his rights. He *should* have known the legal consequences of his actions. If he was still prepared to shoot an intruder, he should have had a backup plan other than immediately calling the police. If he'd killed them both, then buried them in the back yard, he still would have had a life sentence, but only if caught. He basically guarenteed himself lots of jailtime

    Before I started carrying concealed, I consulted an attorney friend of mine (who as a friend works for beer!) who was a former assistant DA and he gave me a lot of advice, such as: Know the law - know the potential punishments. Knowing this, don't carry a gun unless you're prepared to use it. Don't use it unless you're prepared to go to court defending your actions. Keep your lawyer's number programmed in the cell.
    CHRIS PENLEY -aka CUE7467- YOU ARE A LIAR AND A THIEF.
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    WHERE IS MY REFUND???

  16. #16
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    Sorry the guy had previous problems. But I do not see how that changes teh situation.

    The intruders were in his house and had threatened him with a crowbar. They got what was coming.

    But then again I live in Texas.

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    Texans!!!

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    I have a wife and 14-year old daughter. Don't want to appear to be chest-beating for a scenario that might never happen, but if I catch someone in my window, with a crowbar, coming or going, I might not shoot but I'm sure as heck going to stop them from moving a muscle. Yes, they may have been fleeing, or it's also possible they may have turned away to pull their gun out of their waistband. I might not be sure what they're doing and I might not be willing to take the chance of my wife and daughter's safety on the benevolence of a criminal. You break into my house, you take the chance that I might not be completely rational about you being there. Luckily for a burglar, I am not a panic-oriented person by nature and would tend to stop and think my actions through. Unluckily for me, it would be difficult having once pulled the trigger, to be able to truthfully claim that I didn't intend to.

    After that, I guess the chips will fall where they may, although it would be nice to be living in Texas when I needed a sympathetic jury.
    "In survival, you seize the high ground and set up a machine gun nest." Hardware on THR.us 1/7/10

  19. #19
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    I hope you get some sympathy during the civil suit, too. Unfortunately for Mr. Martin, he didn't live in Texas or Florida and left the guy to die in the bushes. There was also a report that he went to a friend's house to stash a second gun before he went to the hotel or wherever he took off to.

    ___________________

    Meanwhile, for fun, let me ask if anyone has seen Guy Ritchie's 2001 movie "Snatch". Let's just say it's about Pikeys, crime, underground boxing, and a bunch of stuff. Brad Pitt steals the show, although I couldn't understand half of what anybody said between the British accents and the Pikey jargon - mumble, mumble, mumble.

    Here's a clip (warning: dirty words.) The two guys are going to the Pikey camp to buy a camper/caravan. Stick around for the camper sale at about the 2-minute mark and then the fight between Brad Pitt and the big guy at the 4-minute mark.

    http://www.videosift.com/video/Pikey...s-Ya-Like-Dags

    Like the guy said, "Never try to out flex a Pikey."

  20. #20
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    When I joined my gun club they had us watch a video about the attack on gun rights, including a segment on Tony Martin. I presume the video was by the NRA, though I can't remember. They certainly did not mention some of the things JohnBT just did.
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  21. #21
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    Most of my lineage comes from England, . . . and all I can say is that I am surely glad they decided not to stay in that place.

    Looking at stuff like that really makes one want to say, "God bless the USA".

    May God bless,
    Dwight
    If you can breathe, thank God
    If you can read, thank a teacher
    If you are reading this in English, thank a veteran

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