Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Observations while attempting to get into a gun show

  1. #1
    Member  
    Join Date
    12-21-07
    Posts
    33

    Observations while attempting to get into a gun show

    There is a fair sized gun show here in Raleigh, NC today and tomorrow. The doors opened to the show at 9AM, and I show up at around 9:20. The line to buy tickets into the show stretched for a distance somewhere between a quarter and a half mile, thousands of people were waiting. According to the police they had started arriving at 6 AM, and the fire marshall had been called to certify that the building had reached capacity and no one else would be allowed in until some had left. It was in the 20's temp wise, so I and my son got back in the car with my wife and we left.

    Now, what I noticed was that there were people of every stripe there, and all were willing to wait to get their chance to buy guns/ammo/magazines. I and my son were the only ones who left the line, and I left with the plan to be back on Sunday AM first thing. Not that I need anything, but I want to see just how far this panic buying has gone by putting up a semi auto rifle of my own for sale at a ridiculously high price.

    The people I overheard talking were mainly discussing the upcoming event in January, and how that had motivated them to be there on such a fine North Carolina morning. I know this concern with January has hit nationwide, and that firearms and ammo are disappearing at a rapid rate. The news sources mention it daily.

    But, is that concern unfounded?

    I do not believe it is. I think the fear that the government will begin to tighten controls on firearms is valid and based on recent history of the actions of the US government. Now the people who have been the most avowed enemies of the Second Amendment are in power, and we have seen that they will do whatever it takes to eliminate gun ownership. And these people had to have noticed the buying frenzy that is happening now prior to January, and they have to be discussing amongst themselves how to respond to a people who are obviously alarmed enough to spend their money Christmas arming themselves. How will they respond? No guess, their options are open. I hope that they would leave well enough alone, and not try to add more shackles to the people of the US. But they may believe they have a mandate to carry out their desires and rush headlong into enacting their agenda.

    The real question is, how do we respond? If they do leave gun ownership alone, I believe things will calm down and people will go about their lives. But what if the people in power choose to pursue control?

    What I saw today gave me hope for the future, because I saw people who are not willing to tuck tail and run away from the Second Amendment. It also convinced me that however draconian their gun control may be, it will fail. I do not believe that you can subjugate this people any more than you can control the sea. This people did not seem to be mistaking love of country for love of government.

    I hope that we all are able to live out our lives in peace, raising our kids, working our jobs, and worshiping our God as our parents did before us. Whatever may follow January, may God grant us wisdom to know what to do.

    Peace to you all, Happy Thanksgiving, and a Merry Christmas a month early.
    Deo Vindice
    Alba Gu Brath

  2. #2
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    12-14-06
    Location
    CNY
    Posts
    1,728
    The part that worries me is that I see many people pursuing such simply because of the threat of unavailability, and not in preparation for this mythical revolt I so often hear thrown about.

    Elmer and the rest are, to my mind, more interested in selfish gratification and having the neat toys while they're still available than they are in equipping to fight an insurrection, and so long as stuff's grandfathered, I'm not sure there will be as much outcry as we would hope.

  3. #3
    Member  
    Join Date
    04-30-08
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,947
    It doesn't really matter what reason they're buying guns for, as long as they have them. The more guns in the people's hands, the more power they have.

    If the reason came to use them, and they bought a rifle for hunting rather than self defense, who's to say that the rifle can't work for the latter reason?

    I feel the same way as the OP about this frenzy. It really does give me hope for the future. The only downside is that ammo prices will be increasing and won't go down in the near future. It's a small price to pay.

    1,000th post yay!

  4. #4
    Member  
    Join Date
    12-21-07
    Posts
    33
    To me, what I saw today was an affirmation of the continued existence of that anti-government strain that used to run so strongly in the South. My elders loved their God, family, friends, state, and country (in that exact order), but none loved the government. The next four years may be enough to wake people up.

    If it doesn't they don't deserve liberty anyway, and they should not mind wearing a heavier yoke.
    Deo Vindice
    Alba Gu Brath

  5. #5
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    12-25-02
    Location
    The Free State of Arizona
    Posts
    677
    We don't need to revolt in the streets.

    In less than two years there will be another revolution.

    Some folks call it an election. If we do what we did in 1994, and retake the senate and house, Obama can do minimal amount of damage.

    But we all have to work together. Far to many are more interested in making statements to justify their not voting for the folks that might save our civil rights and guns.

    Go figure.

    Fred
    Semper Fi *** Stupid should hurt
    “To lead untrained men in to war, is to waste them.” - Confucious
    “We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” - Ayn Rand

  6. #6
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    02-03-06
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    432
    I wonder how many of the people at the gun shows who are buying guns and ammo voted for the democrats??

    I went to a small Shriners gun show in Colorado Springs the other day. Got there at about 10:30 they opened at 10:00. The ammo guy I usually get stuff from was just about sold out. Amazing.



    C

  7. #7
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    05-03-06
    Posts
    908
    Chieftain said,
    If we do what we did in 1994, and retake the senate and house,
    Tell me, just for the sake of discussion, how much of the Clinton agenda did the new Republican "leadership" roll back or get repealed in 1995, 1996, 1997, etc...

    Can you name one time that a Clinton VETO was over-ridden by the new Republican "leadership"?

    My very real concern is that we have arrived at our final opportunity to save this (what once was) republic. People are buying guns now, because the know full well that there will NOT be another opportunity to buy them. If another ban is passed, it will NOT have a sunset provision.

    The leftists in this country don't care if they lose a few seats in the house next year. Their PROGRAM will continue, in spite of temporary setbacks. Their PROGRAM is the advance of Socialism. It is religious. It is generational. So if the pendulum swings back to the right...just a little... the socialists don't care, they'll lick their wounds and prepare for their next campaign while the "conservatives" celebrate victory.

    So called "conservatives" have been fighting a defensive battle, and losing, since the days of FDR and the New Deal.

    Even the New Deal was pre-ordained with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act and the 16th and 17th Amendments. Those all happened at about the same time... 1913.

    OK, cutting the the chase...buy your weapons, ammo and magazines now!
    PR
    ------------------------------------------------------
    "The people do not know what is best for themselves. Therefor we must FORCE the people to be happy!"

  8. #8
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    12-24-02
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    9,688
    On the one hand, Heller may help protect against the most blatant possible Federal abuses.

    But on the other...

    OK, this is a leeetle bit off-topic but I think it does fit.

    I have believed for some time now that "the powers that be" (and danged if I know exactly who, but they include major corporate CEOs and their supporters in DC) have thought that American labor costs are too high, making us uncompetitive on the world market.

    There may be something to that, but the problem is, just HOW do you shrink the standard of living for a huge swath of the country without civil unrest?

    Well one answer is, you don't. Better disarm 'em first, and I really think this is one of the thought processes behind some gun grabbers. In some cases it's the "greenie types" ready to support this shrink-back as well, based on the belief that high incomes cause people to drive SUVs and otherwise "despoil the planet".

    Sigh.

    Now understand, I've had this thought in the back of my head since realizing how much corporate money has gone into gun control groups ranging from the Joyce Foundation, the Commie Mommies, Brady, etc. circa 2000 or so. Study what George Soros is up to and you can see the threads of this concept.

    For the first time, I'm now seeing signs that this sort of thinking is being brought into the open. It shows up in two areas:

    * Blaming personal credit excesses for the recent financial melt-down. There's an element of truth to this of course but the mortgage crisis was pretty obviously "engineered" from the beginning. What was happening to Fanny and Freddy were clearly unsustainable, and that would have been obvious to anybody with data as advanced as the Federal Reserve Bank at least since 2004 or so, yet NO economic brakes were applied whatsoever. Instead "flip this house" remained a popular show on cable...

    * The most obvious pointer to a direct push for reducing wages comes in an editorial by Mitt Romney titled "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" in the NYTimes:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/op...romney.html?hp

    In it he blames the unions and "$75/hr wages" for the likely collapses-to-come of Chrysler and GM, and says "let it happen". Yet again, there's an element of truth here but it's also a fact that American manufacturers kept building guzzlers, going for short-term windfalls while not putting the R&D into anything economical. Granted, GM has been working on the "Volt" and it looks like a winner (series hybrid is better than parallel!) but it's not due until 2010 and then not in volume. There also hasn't been near enough R&D in clean diesels and diesel/electric hybrids...a diesel engine makes a killer generator motor which is why subs and locomotives use 'em.

    My point is, Romney overstates labor costs as an issue. Why? Again: get us to blame ourselves and just maybe we'll tolerate a general collapse of the standard of living without too many riots.

    I think Obama's role is going to be to try and bring American living standards on a "controlled descent" without a total collapse, keeping the new lower classes happy enough with free healthcare so that they don't riot over most adults sleeping two or three to a bedroom and driving cheap Chinese motorcycles/scooters to save money while working 10hr days. That IS where we're headed, guys, start looking at what various market indicators are doing, they're spiking all over the map. Start with the shipping industry, what's happening in the cargo container transport market internationally. Holy crap...

    The question on THIS board is, will Obama do that "economic letdown" with or without gun control in the mix?
    Jim March
    TFL Alumnus
    Equal Rights for CCW Home Page
    http://www.equalccw.com
    Airplane Pictures

  9. #9
    Member  
    Join Date
    04-30-08
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,947
    The question on THIS board is, will Obama do that "economic letdown" with or without gun control in the mix?
    With. No use in wondering.

  10. #10
    Member  
    Join Date
    07-09-08
    Location
    Fairfax County, VA
    Posts
    97

    Pardon the digression.

    Jim March #8, mentions in passing:

    ... "the powers that be" (and danged if I know exactly who, but they include major corporate CEOs and their supporters in DC) ...
    I recommend Thomas R. Dye's Who's Running America? as something you might read on this. It's a textbook, but it reads well and is well-argued. Dye used to update it with each new administration, but apparently it's only up to the 7th edition (2002).

    Basically, his argument is that any mythology notwithstanding, human grouping as large and complex as the United States has to be run by a limited number of people ... "democracy" in the original sense is simply impossible because of the scale. He attempts to identify the relevant decisionmakers in the US, which I believe is about five thousand people or so.

    It is emphatically not a conspiracy theory book, of either the right or the left, but rather a relatively detached attempt to explain how something as big and complex as the United States actually has to work.

    Since it's a textbook it tends to be overpriced, even used. I'd try one's local library, including Interlibrary Loan (most of them have that) before I bought it. Even if you disagree with his conclusions, you might find the approach interesting.

    regards,

    GR
    Last edited by Gentleman Ranker; November 23rd, 2008 at 03:30 PM. Reason: spelling

  11. #11
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    11-17-03
    Location
    Lexington, IL
    Posts
    2,618
    Yup, there should be absolutely no doubt that he's going to go after guns .. it's just a matter of how aggressive he'll be. For my .02 I predict an new AWB, taxes on ammo, micro stamping and FFL licensing fee's jacked high enough to put 90% of the mom and pops out of business. (THAT he can do be executive order)

  12. #12
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    03-20-07
    Location
    Newton
    Posts
    1,188
    Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying "End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH" the paint wouldn't even have time to dry. - Terry Pratchett

  13. #13
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    08-09-08
    Posts
    109
    I witnessed the same kind of scene in my home town a couple weeks ago. Biggest gun show crowd I've ever seen. People were leaving the place with two-wheeled dolly carts with ammo and reloading components. I witnessed one guy buy about $400.00 of supplies just for .45acp and 9mm alone. Vote. Call. E-mail. Talk to people. I DO NOT enjoy doing any of it. But I do it anyway. I mean, look at the two major candidates: Has anyone else wanted to ask the two major political parties, say "Hey, are these two guys the best you could come up with? Seriously? Of all the people in the USA who are familiar with government and qualified to be president, THESE TWO are who we say are qualified to do the job, who actually have a shot at being the leader of the free world?" Makes you wonder why some of the actually great people who could be president are scared or turned off about pursuing the job. Maybe they know too MUCH about the way things really work...hmmm...

    Sobering, isn't it? Yes, this is what alot of people are realizing. The choices we had in front of us should tell us where we're headed, and what we've lost. Let's get to work to have better choices for the future, or we all will be dealing with gun control and other liberty issues - at our front door. It won't be off in the distance anymore. Ask some old folks who used to live in Germany in the '30s about how things "change"ed -the few that are left to actually tell the truth.
    Let's all stand together, so we won't have to stand apart later on.

    Freedom is worth the price. Count the cost.

  14. #14
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    03-20-08
    Posts
    4,829
    PR, great post. Thank you!

    Quote by P.R.:

    "Tell me, just for the sake of discussion, how much of the Clinton agenda did the new Republican "leadership" roll back or get repealed in 1995, 1996, 1997, etc...

    Can you name one time that a Clinton VETO was over-ridden by the new Republican "leadership"?

    My very real concern is that we have arrived at our final opportunity to save this (what once was) republic. People are buying guns now, because the know full well that there will NOT be another opportunity to buy them. If another ban is passed, it will NOT have a sunset provision.

    The leftists in this country don't care if they lose a few seats in the house next year. Their PROGRAM will continue, in spite of temporary setbacks. Their PROGRAM is the advance of Socialism. It is religious. It is generational. So if the pendulum swings back to the right...just a little... the socialists don't care, they'll lick their wounds and prepare for their next campaign while the "conservatives" celebrate victory.

    So called "conservatives" have been fighting a defensive battle, and losing, since the days of FDR and the New Deal.

    Even the New Deal was pre-ordained with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act and the 16th and 17th Amendments. Those all happened at about the same time... 1913.

    OK, cutting the the chase...buy your weapons, ammo and magazines now!"

    ~~~~~

    I would say something about who is running America and TONS more but it would get closed down here. ; . (

    Got ammo? ; . )

    Buy guns, buy ammunition, buy your reloading supplies and equipment... keep on buying! The government should FEAR the people - the people should NOT FEAR their government and 'elected leaders'!

    Catherine
    Last edited by Catherine; November 24th, 2008 at 04:54 AM. Reason: Added PR's quote and a typo.
    Closed Account

  15. #15
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    12-25-02
    Location
    The Free State of Arizona
    Posts
    677
    ell me, just for the sake of discussion, how much of the Clinton agenda did the new Republican "leadership" roll back or get repealed in 1995, 1996, 1997, etc...

    Can you name one time that a Clinton VETO was over-ridden by the new Republican "leadership"?
    they didn't have to. After the whipping the Dimocrats took in 94, Clinton picked up and passed as his own, the Republican agenda. About 75% of the Republican Contract with America. Pissing off a lot of Libbers.

    If you were aware, a Republican campaign advisor was hired and he ran Clintons 96 reelection bid. The Republican's ran a great candidate, who was as boring as hell (very much like McCain, a war hero too). Once again thanks to flaps (Peroit), Clinton won reelection with less than a Majority of voters. Just as he had in 92.

    As to over riding Veto's. The Republicans never had enough votes to accomplish that. A simple majority is not sufficient. But you knew that.

    Facts, the antidote for the INTERNET.

    Go figure.

    Fred
    Semper Fi *** Stupid should hurt
    “To lead untrained men in to war, is to waste them.” - Confucious
    “We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” - Ayn Rand

  16. #16
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    01-02-03
    Location
    St. Louis, in the Don't Show Me state
    Posts
    9,685
    1) It's deer season.

    2) There are probably a few blithering geniuses out there who think that they can buy an $800 AR today, and sell it for $1500 a year from now. What is more likely is that you'll get a letter telling you to come turn it in, or face ten years in jail.

    And you'll turn it in.

    How many of you voted for Obama? How many of you voted third party?

    Enough.
    Resume available upon request.
    Have good references.
    Can pass any number of drug screens.

  17. #17
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    03-15-07
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    917
    Vaarok: Elmer and the rest are, to my mind, more interested in selfish gratification and having the neat toys while they're still available than they are in equipping to fight an insurrection, and so long as stuff's grandfathered, I'm not sure there will be as much outcry as we would hope.
    And our enemies know this as well. Most won’t think ahead to the future. It will be “Hey, it’s ok since I get to keep what I have now.”

    Add to that the Fudd’s outlook of “I don’t like those guns anyway. All I care about is my deer rifle/shotgun!” And these folks make up a good portion of the gun owners in this country.

    Too many think that we, the gun owners, can swing an election to show the gun grabbers who’s in charge. I fear that our electoral power is overestimated. There were considerably more factors involved in the ’94 turnover than just the gun vote.

    The gun community looks at what we can do now. The gun grabbers are planning on what they can do 10 years from now.
    Fred Schroeder
    "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  18. #18
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    07-30-07
    Location
    KCMO
    Posts
    123
    2) There are probably a few blithering geniuses out there who think that they can buy an $800 AR today, and sell it for $1500 a year from now. What is more likely is that you'll get a letter telling you to come turn it in, or face ten years in jail.

    And you'll turn it in.



    Most people would turn in their firearms I believe, but do many of you post "Molon Labe" just as a catch phrase, or what. Now, few are willing to admit they'd kill for their guns, but yes for their rights. Thomas Jefferson was VERY anti-government, you could say in a way. He believe in retaining the will to fight and I think if push comes to shove we will.

    But yea, if I can get a box of .223 for $8 now, why would I wait to potentially pay $15? Buy now, and in bulk.
    NRA Member

  19. #19
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    03-20-08
    Posts
    4,829
    I think if push comes to shove on 'gun rights' you will have most people turn them in % wise. Whatever 'them' is or fill in the blank for the TYPE of firearm.

    You will have other people LIVE the "Molon Labe!" comment because they actually believe in such things when it comes to RIGHTS in freedom and in GUNS. SELF defense = a RIGHT given to you by God and known to others as a 'natural right'.

    I think that it is an individual thing because some of us feel more strongly about ALL kinds of freedom issues and not only in GUNS.

    Prohibition does not work. It never did and it NEVER WILL.

    It is a GUN - a TOOL - an OBJECT. Nothing more - nothing less!

    The anti gunners, anti freedom folks and NWO control freaks don't care even if they know in their hearts (If they have one! Ha!) that WE are right when it comes to GUNS and RIGHTS.

    Financial and gun control = CONTROL.

    Control = people control!

    Catherine
    Don't blame me, I was for Ron Paul back in 1988 too!
    End the FED.
    Closed Account

  20. #20
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    11-11-03
    Location
    New Jersey Highlands
    Posts
    2,128
    What amazes me is when I hear of a supposedly pro-2a person who voted Obama or who doesn't belong to the NRA because of junk mail.

    I wonder how many of those people are buying at these shows?

  21. #21
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    08-03-08
    Location
    no longer a member here
    Posts
    1,056

    PR and Catherine said it dead on

    Just curious though and this is hypothetical:
    One thing I mentioned in a prior post to either the "what now" or the "GOP wants your opinion" post... Is there a group of us that are beginning to wonder not if we can save the republic or shoot the b@#%ds but, how about giving the ailing republic a push. A sudden lurch if you will that does get the blood boiling. A sudden push that does awaken the proverbial frog in boiling water. (I know the proverb is a fallacy but it sorta describes our plight) I wonder, if the BO election might not have been helped along by others who have decided to make the sudden shove to wake people up? Just my thoughts to follow along Jim's line of thinking. Some people realizing the writing on the wall and deciding to wake others up. Too deep and conspiracy-like? Just wondering...

    Do I need tinfoil?

  22. #22
    Moderator  
    Join Date
    10-10-06
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, VA
    Posts
    7,807
    I just wonder how many of those folks in line are member of the NRA, GOA, etc.

    I wonder how many of those shop keepers selling their wares like hotcakes are also taking a bit of that profit and funding the NRA, GOA, etc.

    Or is Nero fiddling as Rome burns?
    .
    "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on"

  23. #23
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    02-25-05
    Location
    Somewhere, USA
    Posts
    1,836
    I just ordered another 1,000 rounds of 7.62x39 today from Sportsmansguide.co because I do not think that fears of governemnt restrictions are unfounded. I think that is what is ging to happen, or at least what they will try under the guidance of the latest pesident elect and his lib cronies in Congress.
    When I look in the mirror, I am happy to see, some of that nine year old boy, who used to be me!© GRB

    http://ballseyesboomers.blogspot.com/

  24. #24
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    02-21-04
    Posts
    134
    IMHO, The large demand and sales number of magazine fed semi autos is going to act as a damper on any type of ban.

    Fact - Most people do not read the intricacies of a proposed law.

    As such, many (most?) will assume a "ban" will prevent them from selling / keeping thier new toy. They will demand thier reps vote against it.


    Again, IMHO, I think that it makes it more likely that any gun laws passed will involve registration (already ok'd by SCOTUS), tax stamps on firearms, tax stamps on magazines, and / or increased taxes on firearms and ammo. It makes sense for Obama / the Democrats / the Liberal Left to want to increase taxes on a booming part of the ecomomy (gun/ammo sales). They can pitch it as part of an ecomonic plan. They can use the expected taxes as a source of revenue to offset the ecomonic bailout/spending they will be doing. Most gun owners will not gripe as much. And it sets the sage for gradually increasing costs on firearm purchases / ownership that will give the same eventual result as an outright ban - without the adament resistance.

  25. #25
    Senior Member  
    Join Date
    02-14-06
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    867
    I have a booth at the next two guns shows. This weekend is generally a small one and the next in Mid December is the largest of the year. I will report back what I have found.

    Business has been good for me and hope it continues that way.
    Srigs
    www.sideguardholsters.com and www.sideguardholsters.com/blog
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •