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Thread: In Defense of the Box-O-Truth

  1. #1
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    In Defense of the Box-O-Truth

    Howdy, folks.
    I took a stab at a thread drift trashing The Box O Truth.

    The Box O Truth is a great website. He does experiments that you and I can do (assuming you've got plenty of sheet rock and gallon jugs). It's not a multi-million dollar crack research team. I have all of the respect for this guy becuase he does what other people gripe about. I'd just like to publically say that until you can meet it or beat it, you don't have a leg to stand on when trashing it.

    Yeah, it's a rant thread, I just had to get it off of my chest. Thanks
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    Let Us Not Confuse...

    ...good intentions with greatness. I was recently referred to The Box O' Truth's review of the Taurus Judge as a source on the limited penetration of .410 shotgun slugs. While there, I couldn't help noticing the photograph that presumably depicts the effectiveness of birdshot loads from that gun against rattlesnakes. While I have never had to shoot a rattlesnake myself, the reports I have received from those who have lead me to question the validity of the statement "Looks like it would ruin a snake's day just fine." (Where I live, people who have to deal with unwanted rattlesnakes prefer hoes or shovels to firearms.)

    As I have said elsewhere, "Most importantly, just because a person makes sense some of the time does not guarantee that they will make sense all of the time. It's kind of like that famous credit card - when it comes to common sense, don't leave home without it! "

    There are reasons that the firearms industry does not use the same test media as Box O' Truth and it's important to recognize the limitations of the various test media.

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    There are reasons that the firearms industry does not use the same test media as Box O' Truth and it's important to recognize the limitations of the various test media.
    The test media does not matter as long as there is a constant.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    The test media does not matter as long as there is a constant.
    It depends on what you are testing for. If you want something that will penetrate 15 inches versus 3 inches in wet phonebooks, that's fine. If you want something that will penetrate 15 inches versus 3 inches in a substance that is sufficiently similar to human tissue so as to extrapolate the effectiveness of the round in said tissue, then the media does matter.

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    The constant test data is backed up by testing in ballistics gel. They know that a specific bullet weight and design fired at a certain speed will penetrate a specific amount of ballistics gel. Then find out how much of another media it will penetrate and that is your baseline.

    The box o truth tests aren't being done to prove penetration into human flesh. They are being done to prove penetration into simulated walls. Read the first Box O' Truth test.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    "Except for ending slavery, Fascism, Nazism, and Communism, war has never solved anything."

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    And to add, that most of the BOT test are to compare rounds to each other so as long as the test medium is the same then alls good. I do not believe that there's much else implied other than how each round compared to the other on that particular medium.

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    yeah.....

    my take on the boxotruth is that it's an old guy with a hobby of (mostly), as has been mentioned already, comparing various loads/calibers/firearms with each other in tests of penetration and destructive potential against some common material such as drywall. I don't think the guy at BOT is trying to tell anyone what to buy, he's just telling us what he has found and letting us decide the scientific validity of his testing procedures.

    Personally, I'm intrigued by the results of some of his tests... I'm not naive enough or inexperienced enough with firearms and the result of using different calibers against living creatures to think that drywall is somehow analagous to a human body, but I do find the differences in penetration between some loads to be rather intriguing.

    For all of you all so out of whack over the BOT, please cut it out... you're acting like children....
    "Sadly, being helpless themselves, sheep tend to instinctively fear anything with canine teeth. Many of them cannot distinguish between the wolf and the sheepdog, and thus fear them both equally."
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    I'm jealous of the BOT guys... growing up out in the country we used to take old appliances out to our range and blast at them. It's very satisfying to hit a dead toaster with a .22 and see dust and crumbs go flying out of it. The BOT guys took it to a new level, I'd LOVE to be able to go shoot up an old car and make some sort of scientific measurements on it!

    The Box O' Truth is ok for what it is, and they do some interesting things pretty often. Like the guy there says, "shooting things is FUN!" Leave it go at that if you don't like the site.

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    It's a great site, entertaining and to a certain extent, informative.

    Why someone would bash is beyond me . . . . .

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    Are the results

    Truthful
    Verifiable
    Repeatable
    Add value

    If so then it's good to go.

    The chaps at BoT are not selling or shilling anything and use the same materials consistently.

    Take it for what is it, entertaining and informative
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    I took a stab at a thread drift trashing The Box O Truth.

    The Box O Truth is a great website. He does experiments that you and I can do (assuming you've got plenty of sheet rock and gallon jugs)
    I look at it as a guy having a lot of fun shooting stuff.

    It's very satisfying to hit a dead toaster with a .22 and see dust and crumbs go flying out of it.
    dead laser printer, toner. Poof. Yes.
    Last edited by lee n. field; November 24th, 2008 at 10:05 PM.
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    I look at it as a guy having a lot of fun shooting stuff.
    He says exactly that at the end of each entry.

    I love the one about the .22lr being stopped by a loaf of bread!
    Gimme back my bullets!

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    It's good reading, and a lot of fun. A few of his results have made me think.

    That said, I wouldn't trust my life to his data alone. Then again, I wouldn't trust my life to any one source I read on the interwebs...
    "I believe in .44 Special the way some folks believe in Elvis." --Michael Bane

  14. #14
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    I like the site its done well and has given me and my boys a few ideas
    Some day my children will have a lot of guns and that will bring a smile to my face.

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    It's just plain fun. Does it need to be more than that?
    "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
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    So a guy busts on BOT because he is sure he can always shoot an intruder in the face in a stressful situation in the dark with birdshot and stop the goblin.
    BOT= guys who like to shoot stuff and have a sense of humor
    knocker with birdshot = Internet commando who is sure he can shoot intruders in the face with birdshot, takes himself way too seriously.
    I think I'd rather hang out with the BOT guys.
    Everybody spread love

  17. #17
    I haven't had a chance to 'test' it yet,but he inspired me to build my own BOT,and I have a zillion milk jugs saved up for testing.

    and,yes,I did it because SHOOTING STUFF IS FUN.


  18. #18
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    "It's just plain fun. Does it need to be more than that?

    No, it doesn't need to be more than that but it is!

    Yes, their tests are not perfect, nor do they directly corelate with damage to human tissue.

    However, they do bring to light certain truths.

    #1 handguns are handguns and rifles are RIFLES

    By this I mean they do a good job of showing how powerful rifles are in comparison to handguns, be it shooting sheetrock, blasting locks, peppering ballistic glass, or whatever.

    They also do a good job of showing that 'military hardware' is not uberpower, that our hunting rifles have equal if not more power. From there it is easy to convince the hunter that a law aimed at 'cop killer bullets' will have a VERY direct effect on his hunting rifle...even his flintlock.

  19. #19
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    Yep. Shooting stuff is fun. Long live Box o' Truth!!!

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