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Thread: Bullet serialization - MSSA Update

  1. #1
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    Bullet serialization - MSSA Update

    Subject: Bullet serialization legislation
    Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:56:10 -0700
    To: mssa@mtssa.org

    Dear MSSA Friends,

    Legislation has been introduced in a dozen states to require micro-serialization of bullets and to make it illegal for anyone to possess unmarked bullets or ammunition with unmarked bullets. The National Shooting Sports Foundation has done a report on this issue HERE.

    It is expected that no such bill will be introduced in Montana, but MSSA will be on it immediately if it is.

    As NSSF points out, this would be a HUGE choke on ammunition manufacture, including incredible delays in manufacturing, vast cost increases, and washing out most producers because of setup and equipment costs. It is also useless technology except for restricting availability of ammunition.

    Gary Marbut, president
    Montana Shooting Sports Association
    http://www.mtssa.org
    author, Gun Laws of Montana
    http://www.mtpublish.com
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    Nibble, nibble, nibble, nibble.

    I hear rats in the walls.

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    The day they tell me that I have to have serialized ammo, is the day I cease to be "Law Abiding".....
    "If it looks like a rabbit, and acts like a rabbit, it will be treated as such- prey for all predators.
    If it looks like a rabbit and bites like a rattlesnake, rabbits will be safer, and predators more reticent."

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    I thought they passed this in California already?

    Am I wrong?

    Thanks
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    Hasnt passed as far as I know.
    ...Brian

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    Depending on the method, it could be done cheap - but I don't anticipate that as a positive outcome.

    Bullet serialization is just another anti gun scheme, like firing pins that can mark a casing, or "smart" guns that can only be operated by the owner. In the big picture, it solves nothing. Anybody and everybody sells/gives/trades ammo, so the value of a chain of custody will be broken at the first user level. Nothing can be done to stop that - laws are apparently made to be ignored, as those incarcerated constantly remind us.

    Asking if this has already happened in Cali is pretty dry wit, still, there are many gun enthusiasts who don't care enough to even know if it did happen or not. Like the last election, if everyone isn't a supporter, we lose. Keep your friends updated on stuff like this when it comes up.

  7. #7
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    Thanks BLC
    IANSA is the enemy.

    "If someone is so fearful that they are going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, it makes me very nervous that these people have weapons at all." ~~Henry Waxman

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    LAR-15

    Two different beasties.

    Casing marking, where the firing pin is supposed to leave a unique serial number embedded in the cartridge. Passed in California even though this is tested to be useless and is a monopoly........

    Ammunition serialization where, at the factory, all ammunition has to have a unique serial number punched onto ever round. Not passed anywhere yet
    "Remember children, once we have pulled the pin from Mr. Grenade, Mr Grenade is no longer our friend"

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    to make it illegal for anyone to possess unmarked bullets or ammunition with unmarked bullets
    He's not quoting the proposed law, but if this is accurate, then you guys sitting on 20,000 rounds take heed - you'd be an instant criminal.

    (and the borders of NJ would have just grown to encompass the entire country)

    I am more worried about this kind of legislation than another assault weapons ban. The Chris Rock $5000 bullet . . . .

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    Guess I'll be an instant criminal if something this stupid were actually passed into law. How are they going to enforce such an asinine law anyway? Have ammo cops checking everyone's house? Not a career choice for those wishing a long and healthy life I'd imagine.

  11. #11
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    The way I see it pricing the people out of affordable ammunition violates the 2nd Amendment because of the words "...shall not be infringed..." .
    We need to use that when fighting against this.
    , Bill Weddle


    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

  12. #12
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    Not to mention all the surplus ammo that would probably be destroyed.

    Harve: You have a point. That would infringe on even "bubba" or "sportsman" gun owners, not just us crazy "military types" with "assault weapons".

    I wouldn't expect them to be able to pull it off. This directly effects EVERY SINGLE gun owner in America.

  13. #13
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    I wouldn't expect them to be able to pull it off. This directly effects EVERY SINGLE gun owner in America.
    No, it doesn't.

    I followed one of the links and read a couple of the bills proposed in some of the state legislatures. The bills are addressing primarily handgun ammunition. It appears to me this is carefully planned as another "drive the wedge deeper" sneak attack. They go after ammo serialization just for handguns, because then the hunters and the trap shooters won't be affected. "Nobody NEEDS a handgun except the police, right? My hunting ammo isn't covered, so let it pass."

    We've seen it before, and we'll be seeing it again. Steps. One step at a time ...

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    We've seen it before, and we'll be seeing it again. Steps. One step at a time ..
    I completely agree.Those treacherous steps.

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    The bills are addressing primarily handgun ammunition.
    So, it won't affect the price or availability of ammunition for my lever action .44 magnum rifle, right?
    You can have free speech or you can have income taxes but you cannot have both.

  16. #16
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    they the day they do this is the day criminals just steal a gun......oh wait that already happens

    how will this have an effect?
    "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." --Sam Adams
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  17. #17
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    Steps at a time. Yes, they will DO whatever that 'they' want to do.

    Ugh.

    Pistol caliber rifles as in pistol caliber for handguns will be touched if this is not nipped in the bud even more - 357Magnum, 41Magnum, 44Magnum, 45Colt, 9mm, etc.

    After that... they will MESS with those bigger cartridges aka 'bullets' to the anti gunners so they WILL try to MESS with hunting calibers and those 'evil black rifles' = .223 and more!

    How would they get those numbers on 22LR ammunition which can be used in handguns and rifles? Wow!

    What about shotgun ammunition?

    What about ALL reloading supplies and equipment?

    I own far MORE handguns than I do in rifles and I always did.

    It all stinks.

    Catherine
    Last edited by Catherine; November 29th, 2008 at 01:53 AM. Reason: Added more.
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    The first thing I'm going to buy as soon as I have the money is a progressive press and dies for every caliber I own. I've been meaning to do it for the past 3 years but I keep putting it off for lack of workspace in the garage. Guess I will have to make room in the office. Or the dining room.

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    I am getting a 9mm die for my husband here. He said that he would reload for my Glock as he does for all of our guns.

    He has the other STUFF for all calibers - pretty sure of that.

    If you shoot a lot of 22LR too - keep on buying in bulk.

    Catherine
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    I definitely want to reload 45 and 380. 45 seems like an especially rewarding caliber to reload. Seems like a lot of room to safely raise velocity without breaking the speed of sound.

    Dunno if 7.62x39 is worth it considering how few AK rounds are boxer primed and what the AK ejector does to brass.

    Regarding SHTF type rounds, I am wondering whether the wave of the future is a kel-tec bullpup in 308 or some sort of gas piston AR in 6.8SPC. Until I can decide I'll just stick with milsurp 7.62x39 and an AK. At least I already have a lot of the ammo and loads of mags.

    I also need to buy a suppressor for the 22. 22 is a perfect round for killing small animals but it would be more perfect if you could use it at night since that is when most of the small animals are out and about. Right now I use 45 acp but it seems like overkill. Also semi-worrisome to shoot a coon out of a tree and knowing the FMJ round probably didn't slow down at all on the way through.

  21. #21
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    If bullet serialization is passed will owning bullet molds and lead make you a felon?

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    86thecat wrote: If bullet serialization is passed will owning bullet molds and lead make you a felon?

    Probably not, but assembling ammunition based on the work product would be if such legislation was passed. However, owning such paraphernalia could make you a "person of interest".

    Hope it doesn't come to that.

    Same reason that owning a shotgun and a hacksaw won't make you a felon.

  23. #23
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    Same reason that owning a shotgun and a hacksaw won't make you a felon.
    Yet...
    Some people are like slinkies. Not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

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    The primary use of a hacksaw is not creating illegal weapons, the primary use of bullet molds and lead would be to create (most likely) illegal ammunition if this passes.

    If this restriction only covers jacketed bullets it will be worthless as criminals will be well served using lead semi wadcutters. Gang banger chic will become a revolver with LSWC. No ejected cases, no bullet ID.

    I can see lead bullet shooters not being concerned about this legislation now but crying in their beer after it's too late.

  25. #25
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    Lead bullet shooter here . . and very concerned. The one they tried to get through the Illinois Legislature required you to use/destroy/turn in any ammo that was non-micro stamped within 6 months of the bill passing. Luckily that one is dead for the time being . . . . honestly I think this is the biggest threat to shooting as a hobby.

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