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Thread: Obama's Intentions on Guns ...

  1. #1
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    Obama's Intentions on Guns ...

    Several threads have been posted about what BHO may or may not do relative to RKBA, etc., etc.

    BHO has even publicly stated that "legal gun owners have nothing to fear from him" ...

    However, would a person that would permit another person to bow to them in a public setting, while laughing along with smiling family and other smiling "officials" ... perhaps give you a glimpse of what's behind the "facade".

    My impression is that a person that would do that is certainly inclined toward the elimination of an armed citizenry, especially one that can be made virtually dependent on the benevolence of the "leadership".

    The following picture with caption and AP attribution is from today's (11/27/08) Cleveland Plain Dealer:



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  2. #2
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    #1 IBTL

    #2 How do you stop someone from doing something like bowing ? I would give him the benifit of the doubt. We do not know what happened prior to the picture or after the picture. We also do not know for sure what the person is doing from this one image.



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  3. #3
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    Don't Take Your Guns to Town
    Will Attorney General Eric Holder respect the Second Amendment?

    Damon W. Root | November 26, 2008
    "As President, I will uphold the constitutional rights of law-abiding gun-owners, hunters, and sportsmen. I know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne." That was Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on June 26, 2008, responding to the Supreme Court's landmark decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, which struck down Washington, DC's draconian handgun ban and held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms—not a collective one.

    "I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals," Obama went on, "but I also identify with the need for crime-ravaged communities to save their children from the violence that plagues our streets through common-sense, effective safety measures."

    While it wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the decision, Obama's statement was an improvement over his previous equivocations. But that line about Chicago and Cheyenne definitely stood out. Chicago, after all, has a gun ban in place that's just as constitutionally dubious as the one struck down in Heller. Indeed, Alan Gura, the attorney who successfully argued Heller before the Court, is now working on the challenge to the Windy City law.

    So last week's announcement that President-elect Obama has tapped outspoken gun control advocate Eric Holder to serve as his attorney general should come as something less than a complete shock. Holder, who served as deputy attorney general under President Bill Clinton and as acting attorney general under President George W. Bush (a position he held until John Ashcroft was confirmed), has pushed for sweeping and restrictive gun control measures throughout his career while also endorsing the now-discredited collective rights interpretation of the Second Amendment. Obama's selection of Holder raises some serious concerns about his administration's commitment to upholding the entire Bill of Rights.

    In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, for instance, Holder took to the pages of The Washington Post, where he played on the public's newfound fear of terrorism to lobby for additional gun show regulations. But as National Review's Jim Geraghty recently pointed out, of the two "terrorists" that Holder claimed were stalking America's gun show circuit, one was eventually acquitted of supplying guns to terrorists (though not of the separate charge of weapons smuggling), while the other, a man named Ali Boumelhem, didn't buy so much as a camouflage vest at a gun show. Since he had a felony record he let his brother do the shopping. In Holder's mind, that's a "loophole" that needs closing, but as Geraghty notes, "background checks like the one Holder was calling for would not have stopped [it], since the straw purchaser (the surrogate for the real buyer) is chosen because he has a clean record." Unless Holder wants to forbid gun sales to people with disreputable family members or friends, it's hard to imagine how any law could prevent this situation.

    More recently, Holder was one of thirteen former Justice Department officials to sign an amicus brief on behalf of the D.C. government in the Heller case. That document, which endorsed restrictive gun control measures and cited rare and sensational events like the Columbine and Virginia Tech school shootings as evidence of "the deadly toll that firearms exact," also made the case for the collective rights interpretation that has now been rejected by both the Supreme Court and leading liberal legal scholars.

    What does all this mean for Eric Holder's Department of Justice? Nothing good, says Second Amendment scholar and Independence Institute Research Director David Kopel. As Kopel told me via email, under the leadership of Attorney General Janet Reno and Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder, "the DOJ used the U.S. Attorneys offices for the aggressive prosecution of gun owners and sellers, often on flimsy charges. We may expect many more such prosecutions under Holder." Moreover, Holder's turf now includes the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives, which was transferred from the Treasury Department to the Justice Department after 9/11. That's one tool that Reno didn't have in her kit. "Now that the Bureau is part of DOJ," Kopel explained, "Attorney General Holder will have great power to force the imposition of onerous new regulations on firearms sales, on firearms stores, and on manufacturers."

    Attorney General John Ashcroft, of course, famously attacked critics of the government's anti-terrorism policies for chasing "phantoms of lost liberty" and giving "ammunition to America's enemies." Let's hope that Second Amendment supporters won't be chasing as many "phantoms" once Eric Holder inherits the Bush administration's sweeping law enforcement powers.
    http://www.reason.com/news/show/130270.html
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  4. #4
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    Past actions are the best predictor of future actions. His past actions towards gun owners are abysmal.
    Igonrance is temporary, but stupidity is forever.

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    If we are to believe in past actions though, why on Earth would gun owners vote in Ronald Reagan that signed most of the worse California anti gun laws as Governor, or just about every other President in the past 50 years who have all been relatively anti gun rights?

    Really, I think most of this has to do with the false impression that all Democrats want to ban guns and Republicans want to save gun ownership rights, and is nothing short of absolute lunacy. The only people who really get anything out of this is gun stores that can charge twice as much as usual. Listen, we get it. McCain lost, the Republicans got a drumming in the elections, but creating hysteria and panic over something that has far less chance of happening than in even under the Bush administration (I am still mad about all the new bans over the past 8 years) is a bit silly at best.

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    Hussein ran on the promise to enact the AWB. He preached it on the road and it is still posted on his web site.

    I doubt that his version is going to be the watered down Klinton ban. I expect that it will be the one he wanted for us in Illinois. Say goodbye to all semi auto rifles except the tube fed .22 and a few lever action rifles.
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”George Washington

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    Given that most politicians score abysmally low on civic history tests, and that they are generally ignorant about so many matters, I wouldn't presume Obama really understands the differences between a semi-auto hunting rifle and an AR-15. The same goes for understanding the differences between a pistol or a revolver.

    However, Pelosi does understand and does not care. I am more worried about what a single party majority Congress can do than what Obama will do. Hold your Representatives and Senators feet to the fire on our issues and we stand a better chance than doing nothing. They should remember that the AWB cost them politically, and if they don't they should be reminded...
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  8. #8
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    BHO has even publicly stated that "legal gun owners have nothing to fear from him"
    We'll just make all you "legal gun owners", illegal gun owners...

    Then you can let your fears run rampant my fellow subjects...
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    I don't think we'll see much change in the laws. But the NRA ran a good scare campaign to get people buying some hardware and it worked like a charm. Hopefully there are some new gun owners now.

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    Hussein is smart enough to divide gun owners. This thread shows how we will lose the fight against a permanent AWB.

    In his speeches he said that he will leave the hunters and their shotguns alone. They tend to not get alarmed about gun control if it does not effect their three round shotguns.

    Handgun owners have no business having hi cap mags. What are you expecting, Mongol hoards?

    Crazy people and criminals own hi power military assault weapons. Hussein says "there is no justifiable reason to have these in our streets".


    http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda/

    Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”George Washington

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    He has allready stated, multiple times, that guns of any kind should not be
    in the hands of private citizens, just check his old state senate speeches and votes. He has stated this many, many times.

  12. #12
    Hey, face facts, BHO is now President Elect BHO and all your nail biting ain't gonna help, so sit back and wait a spell to see what this fellow will do. Let him rumple the sheets in the White House a few weeks, he's not even there yet and all I hear is hysteria. Neither him nor Pelosi are stupid, they are going to deal with the financial crisis first, that along with the Russkies flexing their muscles again. We may be seeing a new world famine due to this credit crisis (read about the Irish Potato Famine to understand that people died of starvation due more to politics than to the failure of the potato crop).
    Let's be fair and start crucifying the man after he's been in office 100 days.
    I climb fences when there are fences to climb.

  13. #13
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    Hussein is smart enough to divide gun owners. This thread shows how we will lose the fight against a permanent AWB.
    Excuse me, his name is Obama. As of Jan 20 he will be President Obama. Referring to him by his middle name to demean him is not very high road. And no, I didn't vote for him either.
    In any case, I am with the posters here who say he has far more worthwhile things to do than attempt another futile destructive ban campaign.

  14. #14
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    Obama's intentions can be seen in his staff picks.

    Rahm Emanuel for Chief of Staff
    Hillary Clinton for Secretary of State
    Eric Holder for Attorney General.

    All those individuals have done far more harm than Obama has so far. We KNOW what these three have done in the past. Now they're all on the same team together.

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    In any case, I am with the posters here who say he has far more worthwhile things to do than attempt another futile destructive ban campaign.

    Consider this. At this point the economy is really hurting, people are loosing their jobs and many more to go. Peoples 401k's are getting hammered, loosing their houses, etc. etc. This causes a lot of distress and concern on the part of the public and we all with a brain know who caused the problems. The Government. With that said I believe this is the best time for Obama to do something anti. If things get worse and I believe they will our anger is going to be pointed towards the politicans. But without guns what could we do??? The problem with the economy is a great cover for gun control laws and we may not even know it happened.

    JMO

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    Two points for your consideration

    Point 1
    County paper in Chester County PA is running a 4 day series on guns. Multiple pages and topics. Polling the newly elected politicos they are seeing a wide base of support to renew the AWB of 1994, limit gun purchases to 1 a month, and other "sensible" gun laws. Even the few Republicans left are starting to cave. I'm being compared to gangbanger again. Stories of Police being shot at drive up phrases " for as long as guns existed they've been used by criminals". Pressure from the Obama supporters are calling up for this crap.

    Point 2
    Coming down hard on gun owners and feel good dumb laws are easier to accomplish than fixing the economy and fighting terrorists. So to keep the media love fest going where do you think he'll take action.


    I won't sink to the level of filth used to degrade the current president. But lighten up on the Hussein protectionism. W took a lot of trash over "double uu..". I will challenge this charasmtic Marxist that is bent on destroying personal freedom via dupinng ignorant masses on a basis not seen since 1933.

    Before Hitler took your guns he took over the media. BHO has, or is it Soros who has done that already? I only wonder who is controling BHO.
    "I would advise persisting in our struggle for liberty, though it were revealed that 999 men were to perish, and only one of a thousand to
    survive and retain his liberty. One such freeman must possess more virtue, and enjoy more happiness, than a thousand slaves." - Samuel Adams - 1774

  17. #17
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    In any case, I am with the posters here who say he has far more worthwhile things to do than attempt another futile destructive ban campaign.
    I am less of a conspiracy theorist but seeing how much Obama wants to do and how little he has to do it with, it might be prudent for him to pursue things that will not hit the budget, such as the AWB and banning conceal carry nation wide so he can claim he is making progress on his promises. The AWB is somewhat pure politics but you have to understand the mentality of people like Obama. They are paranoid of other peoples perceived incompetence and they believe in an inherent evil of guns. It is my opinion that many living in Illinois live in this state of paranoia. I should know, I have family members that live there and I was raised there and will never move back.

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    Maybe she wasn't bowing----maybe she was "throwing up"!!

  19. #19
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    I'm sure she was bowing to the Messiah.
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”George Washington

  20. #20
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    Coming down hard on gun owners and feel good dumb laws are easier to accomplish than fixing the economy and fighting terrorists. So to keep the media love fest going where do you think he'll take action.
    No, passing an AWB is going to be extremely costly politically. It cost the Dems in '96. That's why you haven't seen it as much of an issue lately. Gun control has largely moved to the states, which is probably where it belongs.
    Spending time passing an AWB while the economy is in crisis (or perceived crisis anyway), there is war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and heightened threat from South America and Russia, will be perceived as shirking responsibility. No one voted for Obama because he was going to pass more gun control. They voted for him on those other issues.

  21. #21
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    If we are to believe in past actions though, why on Earth would gun owners vote in Ronald Reagan that signed most of the worse California anti gun laws as Governor,
    That one's easy; because the alternative the first time was to reelect Carter, and the alternative the second time was to elect Mondale.

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    FWIW, the NRA may have run with Hussein's voting records and words in an attempt to educate voters. Scare tactic - not even close, unless you consider a candidate's own words and plans frightening. I've always loved the way the left makes things up about someone and that's OK, but repeat what a leftist says and that's hitting below the belt. Give it up.

    I didn't see this informational campaign, but I did research Hussein and he is frightening, and not just on firearms. He's a major component of a corrupt political machine and his second in command is the consummate insider and authoritarian thug for the left... and he's stoopid.

    I'll give them the same respect the left gave Mr. Bush & Mr. Cheney, it's only right.

  23. #23
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    I'll give them the same respect the left gave Mr. Bush & Mr. Cheney, it's only right.
    No, it isn't right. We're supposed to be more moral than they are. And this is the High Road.

  24. #24
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    It's exactly because of McCain's inability to do what had to be done to get the truth out that he lost. As a former Chicago south sider I believe those lines from the Untouchables " two to the hospital ...".

    We don't have to stoop to vulgarities. But a little SNL paraody isn't a polical statement, or that's what I was told.
    "I would advise persisting in our struggle for liberty, though it were revealed that 999 men were to perish, and only one of a thousand to
    survive and retain his liberty. One such freeman must possess more virtue, and enjoy more happiness, than a thousand slaves." - Samuel Adams - 1774

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    If anyone remembers 9/11/01 various anti-gun members of Congress called for stricter gun control laws thinking that in the disruption that they'd be able to get them passed. No box-cutter bans were proposed though. All it will take for the anti-gun fanatics to push something really repugnant through will be another terrorist attack in this country.

    There may be a lot more criminals the instant they pass any anti-gun laws too.

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