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Thread: Two men dead in Toys 'R' Us shooting

  1. #1
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    Two men dead in Toys 'R' Us shooting

    This is one of the stupidest statement,
    “I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys R Us?” Ferguson said. “I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper.
    Two men dead in Toys 'R' Us shooting
    Desert Sun staff • November 28, 2008
    http://www.mydesert.com/article/2008.../1112/EVENTS02

    Two men were killed in what might have been a clash between rival groups late this morning inside a crowded Toys R Us in Palm Desert, city officials say. Police say the area is safe and they are letting shoppers leave the scene at 72-314 Highway 111 after an hours-long lockdown.

    The Palm Desert Police Department received calls of shots fired about 11:35 a.m., Riverside County sheriff’s Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said. City spokeswoman Sheila Gilligan said initial reports indicated there were no other injuries.

    Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other and that there were 25 witnesses. Ferguson said he asked police whether the incident was a dispute over a toy or whether it was gang-related. He said police told him they were not going to release further details until the next of kin were contacted.

    Riverside County Sheriff’s Lt. Greg Ammons said that while an investigation into the shooting is ongoing, they are not looking for other suspects because the two men were “the only ones involved.”

    The violence erupted on Black Friday, the traditional post-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping surge, but accounts of what occurred inside the store were fragmentary or second hand and it was not clear whether it involved any shopping frenzy.

    “I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys R Us?” Ferguson said. “I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper.

    “We have two dead individuals inside the store,” he said. “The events of why the shots were fired is still ongoing.”

    ”We don’t have any details yet,” said Toys R Us Corporate spokeswoman Kathleen Waugh said about noon.

    Sarah Pacia of Cathedral City said she was in the store with her two boys, ages 4 and 6, looking at coloring books when she heard a commotion in the next aisle.

    She thought it was people rushing to get a sale item. Then she heard three or four shots.

    She said she froze, and store employees calmly escorted her out of the store.

    "This is Toys R Us. There are kids shopping in there," Pacia said. Her son Jayden, 4, was clinging to her leg. He told her he didn't want to die, she said.

    Dan Watson said he got a call from his 33-year-old wife, Andrea, at 11:19 a.m. She said she there was a lot of gunfire, and he replied, “I can hear it, pop, pop, pop.”

    “I told to turn off her ringer and hide,” Watson said.

    He said the wife said, “Someone’s in the store shooting.”

    He last heard from her at 12:05 p.m. He said she’s doing fine.

    “I’m doing better now," he said, his eyes red at the scene. "But when I was driving here, it broke my heart, because she said 'Just tell my boys I love them.'"
    Her sons, 3 and 7, are with dad.

    Employees at World Gym, 44-419 Town Center Way in Palm Desert, said they are trying to keep people who fled the scene calm and have not heard any further reports from police.

    "I've got a bunch of people from Toys R Us that ran out of the building," said Jeff Vallaire of World Gym,

    Vallaire said he did not hear shots but said about a dozen people came across the street to the gym. They said there was a gunman inside the toy store.

    "They ran out the back. They heard gunshots and came in here," he said. "It's pretty crazy around here right now."


    Scott Bertz had just got off of work in the morning (he works at Waste Management) and turned on the TV when he got home and saw the news about the Toys R Us shooting. He came right over when it happened.

    It was his daughter's first day of work at the store. Brisa Bertz is a College of the Desert student who was working working as a clerk over the holidays to save some money. He hasn't heard from her since.

    "It's crazy," Scott Bertz said. "I don't know why someone would do this," he said, tears streaming down his face. "What could make somebody so mad?"

    Major traffic jams have been reported on Highway 111 and Fred Waring Drive. More than a dozen police cars, paramedic units and fire trucks are at the scene, and a helicopter is circling overhead.

    The Desert Sun has reporters at the scene. Check back with mydesert.com for more details throughout the day.

  2. #2
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    This is one of the stupidest statement,

    Quote:
    “I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys R Us?” Ferguson said. “I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper
    This is a councilman speaking.
    Can we really expect any rationality?
    Every store I walk into I'm carrying a gun.
    I haven't killed anyone yet.
    Ted Kennedy's car is still one up on me.

  3. #3
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    If we just banned concealed carry, or better yet all handguns, this sort of thing would NEVER happen because gang-bangers and other criminals obey all the laws. Don't they?

    It's too bad these idiots have to go to malls and probably crowded stores for their gunfights.

    BTW, I've taken a loaded gun into a Toys R Us, but didn't even so much as show it to anyone. Maybe the councilman could send me an e-mail since my hearing ain't so sharp anymore....

  4. #4
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    This is why if you have a CHL, you always carry. You never can tell when you'll need a gun.

  5. #5
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    Ted Kennedy's car is still one up on me.
    Excuse me, please, but are we sure that shows due respect to the Hero of Chappaquiddick?
    No tyrant should ever be allowed to die a natural death.

  6. #6
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    Excuse me, please, but are we sure that shows proper respect to the Hero of Chappaquiddick?
    I sure hope not!!!!!!!!
    Freedom ain't free...........

  7. #7
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    "What could make somebody so mad?"

    Liquor, women, an Eagles game, a bunch of stuff. I'll be looking for the follow-up story on the shooters' backgrounds.


    Speaking of Teddy K., anybody old enough to remember when VW sued the magazine that published this fake ad?

    http://homepage.mac.com/mr_bingley/....tedvwsmall.jpg

  8. #8
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    Someone with that short of a fuse shoukld not be out shopping on this day. The unfortunate part is that it seems to be an incident between two legal firearm's owners making everyone look bad.

  9. #9
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    Doesn't shock me.

    They trampled some poor guy to death at a walmart on LI today. Woman in the same crowd has a miscarriage after being trampled as well.

    Wonder if either of them were carrying legally; lets hope not.

  10. #10
    The unfortunate part is that it seems to be an incident between two legal firearm's owners making everyone look bad.
    What makes you think they were legal firearms owners?

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that these two were a couple of gangbangers who come from a culture of stupid, ignorant macho cockfighting over petty issues, and did the world a gigantic favor by eliminating each other.
    ▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄ ПOНК РОК ▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀

  11. #11
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    Be prepared... you never know what will happen in your daily life.

    There will be MORE crime and more fill in the blank situations with the way things are going with the economy, cost of living, food prices, devaluation of the dollar, banking mess, REAL unemployment figures. Off the roles, companies closing, 2 or more less paying jobs, no medical insurance, etc.

    The comment about guns from the media and politicos is the same old garbage.

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  12. #12
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    Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that these two were a couple of gangbangers who come from a culture of stupid, ignorant macho cockfighting over petty issues, and did the world a gigantic favor by eliminating each other.
    Nothing has been released. At the very least they had some dislike for each other. Could have been strangers. could have known each other. Details will tell. The only detail I found odd was that the first shooter first fired a warning shot into the air, then shot the other actor. Gangs don't fire warning shots. Not the ones we deal with on the east coast.

    The arguement started when two females got into a dispute. The two men then entered the arguement and the firearms were drawn. At this time there is nothing to indicate that it was gang related but details are scace from the agency. The only detail released is that both parties had a personal dispute.

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    “I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys R Us?” Ferguson said. “I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper.
    Excuse me, sir, but I carry in Toys R Us and anywhere else I shop. My question is who wouldn't take a loaded weapon to Toys R Us?


    "This is Toys R Us. There are kids shopping in there," Pacia said.
    So what? There are also gangbangers and other idiots who are shopping there just like anywhere else.

  14. #14
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    So if I understand, there was actually NO responsible parent in this toys "R" us... a responsible parent being someone who carries 24/7 to protect his loved ones, who's actually HIS responsability to protect against evil.
    No, in fact parents let their children in the hands of criminals, THEY are doing something, you ****tard uncarrying parents.
    If I was living in the U.S. I would be carrying 24/7, in the cinema, in the kid stores, everywhere because it's actually THESE places that attract shootings, malls etc.
    So the argument that childrens are in the place is just plain stupid, you're gonna throw a plastic doll the the shooter or what? Me? I pull out my gun. Yes a gun. Why? 'Cuz I WANT ME AND MY FAMILY TO BE THE ONES WHO GET OUT ON FOOT.
    Warning; this post may contain text matter not suitable for the weak-minded or immature thinker. Reader's discretion is advised.
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  15. #15
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    Ted Kennedy's car is still one up on me.
    That's such a BS statement! Ted Kennedy's car didn't kill anyone. TED KENNEDY is one up on you. His car is an inanimate object and as such is innocent of any wrongdoing.
    “As long as we allow an individual right to trump public safety, families are going to lose their loved ones…"
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  16. #16
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    That's such a BS statement! Ted Kennedy's car didn't kill anyone. TED KENNEDY is one up on you. His car is an inanimate object and as such is innocent of any wrongdoing.
    So sorry,Mr White.Your sense of humor seems sadly out of whack.It's just an old joke.
    Knock back a few and relax.
    I REALLY do know Teddy was to blame and not his maligned Oldsmobile.

    And JohnBT, turning to something more pleasant than another rant,that Volks ad spoof seems to have originated in National Lampoon in 1973.

    See this link:

    http://eschenck.typepad.com/ernie_sc...nnedy_did.html

  17. #17
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    "Excuse me, please, but are we sure that shows due respect to the Hero of Chappaquiddick?"
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  18. #18
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    “I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys R Us?” Ferguson said. “I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper.
    Let's assume for the moment that there was a "firearm free zone" sign above the door. There are two kinds of people that would ignore that sign, police officers, and people out to kill someone. Sadly, those two groups are not mutually exclusive.

    Now, let's assume there was no legal restriction on having a firearm in the store. Who would take a loaded firearm into the store then? Those that intend to kill, and those that intend to protect. Perhaps the two people killed were one from each group.

    There is more to this story. I suspect we will hear more in time.
    You can have free speech or you can have income taxes but you cannot have both.

  19. #19
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    It's california. Likelyhood of legal carry is slim to none.
    Jahwarrior said: I could've given them my ID, but I am right, and obstinate about being so. so, yes,I could've ended it by just cooperating, but that would have hypocritical, lazy, and cowardly.

  20. #20
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    I've broken up an argument in the toy section where a kid (1yr old) was crying and wasn't planning on stopping soon. Another couple walked by and the woman said something about the crying kid to his mother. Heated words about minding their own business and proper care of a child ensued, loud enough to get my attention from halfway across the store. The men looked ready to throw down, which wouldnt have been good since the one guy was 50+, the other in his thirties.

    Suffice to say, I stepped in and informed both of them that it stops or I'd escort them both out and ban them from the store. It didn't matter who started it, and I figured I wouldn't get the real story from either, so I offered the same punishment to both. It always takes two to tango, and if one doesn't back down, things get ugly.

    At the risk of their shopping coming to a screeching halt and some embarrasment when the cops get there, they apparently figure out something neither had likely known before: Fighting over stupid stuff, especially words, is not only pointless, it's worthless.

    People just need to learn to take the high road and walk away.
    The worst things happen at the most critical times, and it's these moments that YOU need to be flawless, not the gun.

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  21. #21
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    Excuse me, please, but are we sure that shows due respect to the Hero of Chappaquiddick?
    Yep. It took real courage to run off and leave Mary Jo trapped in an air pocket inside the car.

    What is it with Massachusetts that they keep electing so many morally-challenged politicians?

  22. #22
    People are facinated by criminals and especially romanticize bootleggers, horny, murderous bootleggers.

  23. #23
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    Let's assume for the moment that there was a "firearm free zone" sign above the door. There are two kinds of people that would ignore that sign

    Then why do we always see people on forums stating that they would not abide by those signs. Your logic is flawed.

    As far as the two involved, from what has been released they were two couples who just disliked each other. No gang connections were found at this time. Details are still limited.

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    As far as the two involved, from what has been released they were two couples who just disliked each other. No gang connections were found at this time. Details are still limited.
    Well, it appears the "couples" won't be disliking each other any more. I'm sure each of the bereaved widows will blame it on the other, though.

    Wonderful example of "Dispute Resolution 101" for the kids.

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    Women. Can't live with them. Can't shoot them......

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