Fighting Campus Idiocy regarding concealed carry

[ZeSpectre]

Aaaaand here we go again.

Letter: Bringing More Guns on Campus To Make it “Safer?”

February 19, 2009 • By Letters to the Editor,
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I was shocked after reading the article about demonstrations held by JMU’s College Republicans and Students for Concealed Carry on Campus during Gun Rights Week. These re-enactments, aside from being disrespectful to the families and friends who lost loved ones during the Virginia Tech shootings, prove nothing about the benefits of having armed students on campuses. It’s impossible for mock shootings to accurately portray what the student response would be in a real-life situation.

Obviously students taking part in these demonstrations this past week knew how the scenario was going to run and already knew how they were going to respond.

A college campus should be a place where students feel safe and able to focus on their education. Wondering whether or not the person sitting next to you in class has a gun is not conducive to a healthy learning environment. Just because someone owns a gun doesn’t mean he or she is trained in responding to all types of situations. Allowing more guns on campus to make it “safer” seems counterproductive. More guns on campus means more opportunity for violence.

I think it’s important to look at the root causes of this issue. Maybe we should be asking ourselves, “Why is it still so easy for anyone to purchase a firearm without undergoing a background check in the state of Virginia?” Or, “Why are students turning to gun violence in the first place? What are ways in which we can prevent troubled individuals from resorting to violence?” Allowing students to carry concealed firearms on campus would not solve the greater underlying issues.

Jamie Carayiannis
Junior studio art major ,
Member of Students For Gun-Free Schools

He? She? I'm not sure which, is already being taken to task for parroting the head of his/her organization from an earlier Washington Post article ( http://tinyurl.com/c36ls6 )

The Breeze is pretty fair for a student paper and will take, and post, your comments as long as you KEEP IT HIGH ROAD!

[Standing Wolf]

Wondering whether or not the person sitting next to you in class has a gun is not conducive to a healthy learning environment. Just because someone owns a gun doesn’t mean he or she is trained in responding to all types of situations. Allowing more guns on campus to make it “safer” seems counterproductive. More guns on campus means more opportunity for violence.

Yeah. Right. Every fender bender will turn into a shoot out. It'll be the wild west all over again. Blah, blah, blah.

I don't understand why the leftist extremists don't tire of retelling the same old lies. Don't they get bored? Aren't they even a little creative? Why can't they ever seem to come up with new lies?

[Wes Janson]

It's interesting to note that it's always the exact same lines, "sitting next to you", "not trained", "non-conducive to a learning environment."

I'd have more respect if they actually came up with an original argument, rather than parroting the same old lines over and over. Which does make you wonder...are they repeating what they've heard on a subliminal level from the media, or are they distinct Brady-esque talking points that they've deliberately studied up on.

[tyler500e]

I posted my thoughts and some facts I found from www.gunfacts.info

[Old Grump]

Now gentlemen, please don't denigrate the poor liberals for parroting the same lines over and over again, its the only ones they have and they are well polished from heavy usage. They evoke terrifying images without having to invoke logic and what else can you ask for.

[Nagant]

"Studio ARTS major"

oh boy... "but i just don't FEEL safe! I FEEL FEEL FEEL"

More than anything, THAT is what we're dealing with...

[deaconkharma]

I noticed this "mexican standoff "theory and "identifying the perp" theory.
These don't withstand the most elementary of scrutiny. "Identifying the perp" First, CWP holders do not GO LOOKING for the criminal. Tactically this is, to put it frankly, a piss poor idea. CWP holders I know of know that clearing hallways and such are for TEAMS of people trained to do so precisely because of target identification and liability issues with any mistakes of such identification. CWP holders in my class were always taught to make a good defense not try to go on offense. That way if you must fight it is on your terms and you funnel them through a zone/bottleneck in your control. So when the shots were fired, a barricaded door if possible, or a draw and fire if guy runs in with gun to shoot people. So as "perp" came in and shot, a CWP holder would then draw and fire as "perp" is now obvious.
"Mexican standoff": again identifying the person as they come into your "defensive" area makes for ease of identification of those on "offense". everyone drawing guns and aiming at each other is not going to happen. More likely what will happen is that the offensive guy is hit by multiple calibers from different firearms, but not this silly mexican standoff tripe.

But... If it makes them feel better how about a "common sense" approach and offer active shooter training to CWP holders that attend college. Hell a college credit hour or two would be a neat idea to add to this. call it CWP 101

actually folks, would a police department be interested in doing this in Columbia? Officer did our CWP class here, I wonder if they could tailor a training class for this, possibly in anticipation of campus carry... this way the argument against, is rendered moot prior to the passing of the law...

[RoadkingLarry]

A college campus should be a place where students BE safe

Fixed it for Jamie.

Doesn't matter how safe you feel, matters how safe you really are.

[Old Grump]

Unless the students are all carrying communication devices and are trained to work as a team under a lot of situations offensive tactics are out. grouping the sheep, uh, unarmed personnel, into an easily defensible site should be as far as they go. If they are out in the open and a situation develops then they better have had some marksmanship training and react appropriately. Its called Self Defense for a reason, let the rest rely on 911 since that is the only thing they have confidence in.

[SapperMapper]

"Disrespectful to the families"

Excuse me?!? The protest is disrespectful, but the original VT shooter is just what? Unfortunate? Misunderstood?

Disgusting.

[Rush]

The VT shooter is mentally disturbed. I'm not excusing him, but I regard him just like an animal, a grizzly bear or something. Just a danger to be taken care of. On the other hand, anti-gunners that try to keep me from defending myself against a killer have no mental illness to explain their evil. They are presumably normal people, yet they would disarm me in the face of a monster trying to kill me. I consider them worse.

[Taurus 66]

Jamie Carayiannis
Junior studio art major

In the art of BS.

It’s impossible for mock shootings to accurately portray what the student response would be in a real-life situation.

Mock drills are excellent training! If it was useless, the military, police forces, and security agencies just wasted millions of hours for nothing. In a real-life situation I know for a fact that the training of an armed student under stress will kick in and he/she will fair better than the lunatic gunman with little or no training.

"So here ya go BS Art Major." <flips Jamie a quarter> "Now you can buy a clue."

Hope this wasn't Low Road.

[protolith]

Um

Wondering whether or not the person sitting next to you in class has a gun is not conducive to a healthy learning environment

That's the reason I want to be able to carry on campus, so I can mitigate that fear.

Just because someone owns a gun doesn’t mean he or she is trained in responding to all types of situations.

Active shooters rarely have any training either.
Most students don't have any training or experience fighting fires, but there's a fire extinguisher in every hall in in every school I have ever been in.

[Cmdr. Gravez0r]

Junior studio art major

Waste of time talking to this one.

[eaglesnester]

If I were a student and had a CCW I would be packen heat no matter what the rules are on campus. No one would of course know until the time came if it ever came, then everyone would know. The sheep sitting next to me would probably be very grateful at the precise moment that they found out I was packen. Like the old story, When the zombies come you will run straight to my house for protection.

[Harley Quinn]

There is no reason to pack on Campus in CA they mention...

I have a CCW, talked to the police at the local College, he said if you carry, please make sure it is really concealed... I have no desire to carry I just go to pick up my GS at times and was curious. He asked me if I was carring at the time I was talking to him...I was not, pistol was in a locked box in truck.

He said thank you for your courtesy. He mentioned if he is not on duty he does carry on campus. Which is correct I think, he is the thin line of order there! Tough job working at a school and all those liberal teachers, who expect you to protect and serve and are very afraid of firearms as a group!

Response is the proper training and there will always be a time when someone is needed to "Protect and Serve". Many say "Serve and Protect" But this link explains the right one!

http://www.joinlapd.com/motto.html


Regards

[Havegunjoe]

“A college campus should be a place where students feel safe and able to focus on their education. Wondering whether or not the person sitting next to you in class has a gun is not conducive to a healthy learning environment. Just because someone owns a gun doesn’t mean he or she is trained in responding to all types of situations. Allowing more guns on campus to make it “safer” seems counterproductive. More guns on campus means more opportunity for violence.”

Just a couple comments on this. First, students should “BE” safe not just “Feel” safe. What does the college campus do to insure this? Probably the best they can but that really isn’t much in most cases.

Second because I carry a gun I am not there to make anyone safe other than me. I may or may not intervene on behalf of someone.

Third, I carry all the time. When I am at the store I doubt anyone is “Wondering whether or not” I am carrying a gun. It is not even a remote thought in most people’s mind. It would be even less on a college campus. A permit holder typically has to be 21 years old, which makes them a senior or graduate student, and have gone through background checks and training. Typically in most states that amounts to 1% - 3% of the population. Even less on a college campus. Do the math. You are probably talking about less than 100 students out of a total student body of 10,000 that would be interested in a carry permit.

[Old Grump]

But that 1 out of 100 student will be scattered around the campus and its no longer a free fire zone for a boogerman. No matter how strict they make the requirements and how tough the training requirements there will be some good hearted people stout enough to jump through the hoops and those are the kind of people who run towards a fire not away from it, who keep their heads handling an accident scene not going off on a panic attack. Go for it, go all the way.

[Havegunjoe]

I agree Old Grump. All I meant was that I think people think that every other college kid will be carry a gun and that scares them. The thought of 18 year olds packing heat and all. The reality is it would be very few qulified individuals but they don’t understand that.

[contenderman]

Sadly, there are people that feel that way about guns, or even about defending their self. They are as convinced that they are right as most of us think they are wrong. And, if they are caught up in a good dose of reality, many may change their minds, but many others will not.

Young and has all the answers ... heck girlie you haven't even heard all the questions ......

.

[SapperMapper]

I recently completed my Associate's Degree. At the start of the summer classes last year, one of the instructors I had become friends with was giving the new, administration-directed safety brief. In the case of an active shooter, an alert text message would be sent to all instructors and staff. Teachers would lock the classroom doors, and everyone would hide in the corner least visible from the doorway. We talked afterward about school shooting scenarios and possible responses. He never came out and asked whether or not I had a CHL, but I think he guessed. (BTW, Texas prohibits carry on campus, but my pistol was never far.)
Later, when he had to meet a student privately, a guy who had expressed vague threats in the past, my teacher friend asked if I could non-chalantly hang around outside his office.

[ZeSpectre]

Later, when he had to meet a student privately, a guy who had expressed vague threats in the past, my teacher friend asked if I could non-chalantly hang around outside his office.

Funny how that works out now isn't it.

[21H40]

Many people (outside of THR ) seem to think allowing carry on campus would give every hormonal and confused 18 year old a pistol. It's almost as if they expect that ALLOWING CCW on campus is the same as setting up an arms room and issuing every student an M-16 on their way to class*.

We're not suggesting that everyone has to carry a weapon. I merely want to be able to defend my life, legally.





*on the other hand, if we issued an M-16 to EVERY student there might be some better behaved kids across campus

[ZeSpectre]

It's almost as if they expect that ALLOWING CCW on campus is the same as setting up an arms room and issuing every student an M-16 on their way to class.

And the Brady bunch (and related organizations) feed that misconception at every turn. It's got to be the piece of misinformation that I fight more often than any other on this issue.

[21H40]

I was discussing related issues with a coworker, and countered that allowing people who could legally carry weapons to do so on campus makes as much sense as allowing sport cars on campus.

"Those machines are capable of going 100 MPH in a school zone! How can you drive one of those within 1000 FT of a school? Think of the children who are put at risk whenever someone drives by in one of those death machines!"

And I'm sure the research will show that sports cars are more dangerous to people who drive them than anyone else. After all, why should we allow someone to own a machine like that, they're plain dangerous.