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Thread: What exactly is a "Speer Bonded Unicore Hollow Point"?

  1. #1
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    What exactly is a "Speer Bonded Unicore Hollow Point"?

    Are they essentially Gold Dots?

    http://georgia-arms.com/new9mmluger1...ntp1000pk.aspx

    I've been contemplating a mass order from GA Arms for a while, but if these won't feed like Gold Dots, I'd have to make a small order for feed testing before getting the EOTW-size case, assuming the giant case becomes available for a reasonable price again.
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    Call 'em. Probably there's some sort of copyright or trademark problem with using the term "gold dot".
    Jim March
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    I haven’t used them, but supposedly the jacket is “Bonded” to the lead bullet.

    Chris

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    Similar in construction to the Gold Dot in both are a bonded. These are not the same bullet as the Gold Dot and have a different design.

  5. #5
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    Different ogive, or different internal design?
    Or to make it really simple (because I'm not sure I'm asking the right questions here) ...

    -1- If Gold Dots feed in a picky pistol, are these likely to feed as well? Or would I be back to square one with reliability testing? (yes, I know that I need to test them in my old P.1, but I want something that has a good chance, at least ... and the vast majority would go through modern handguns that feed pretty much anything anyway)

    -2- Is terminal performance comparable to Gold Dots, or inferior?
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    46 cents ea! Ouch!!! I suspect that Speer is playing the same marketing games as Winchester, wherein "bonded" is another way of saying PLATED.
    I've loaded a whole bunch of different 9mm bullets, and the one that I find to outperform all others is this:
    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...ber=1601153259
    It's the plain ol' Remington 124 gr. JHP. They come and go at Midway. When they do have them, you can get the 2,000 round bulk box for just about $200. Read the reviews. If you really mean to build some stock, reloading is the only way to go. The cost of my equipment was amortized a long time ago, so my average cost now for top quality 9mm SD ammo is about 16 cents each.

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    wherein "bonded" is another way of saying PLATED.
    I thought "bonded" meant the lead core was baked into the jacket, that is, literally soldered in.

    I'm wrong?

    Terry, 230RN
    Trouble is, these jerkwads can pass dumb, self-serving, agenda-driven stupid laws much faster than we can beat them down in the courts. And they're well aware of that.

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    The Gold Dot uses a really heavy electroplate job to bond the copper jacket to the lead core. This isn't a bad thing; copper/lead separation with Gold Dots is virtually unheard of.
    Jim March
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    Sounds like I'd need to order a small batch to compare to some Gold Dots on hand, then.
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    Dave--

    This link is to the Speer catalog:

    http://glarp.atk.com/2009/2009_Catal...etsCatalog.pdf

    Gold Dots are discussed on page 7, Uni-Cor HPs on page 9. Seems like the UCHPs are less expensive, and do not have jacket cuts (memory lines) to aid in dependable, uniform expansion.

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    This may veering OT to the OP, but, IMHO, the jacket is the major reason for inconsistency in bullet performance.

    Variation in jacket thickness, hardness, etc is the major factor in how a bullet performs.

    With reloading for over 45 years, and pulling numerous bullets reloaded in error, over the years I’ve noticed that when using an inertial puller, one bullet will come clear cleanly, while another bullet will have the jacket separate from the lead core. I’m always saddened to see this because this bullet would have performed superbly. The inconsistency, not only between manufacturers, lot numbers, but more importantly within lot numbers, the interaction between jackets and the lead core, the packages performance is directly related.

    This is the major reason I sold off all my semi’s and went strictly with revolvers. Bullet performance is directly related to the jacket. If you doubt this, have a look at an old story of an ND. Hydra Shok......Hummm. While graphic, this fellow should not have had much of a leg left. Bullet performance in a pricy, highly marketed SD Round has swept up so many of us. A graphic example of performance, or more to the point, the lack thereof.

    http://negligentdischarge.com/leg.html

    My choice for an SD weapon was based on:
    1. Bullet performance.
    2. Platform/ammo relationship reliability.
    3. Simplicity.....Occams Razor.

    Reasoning?

    It doesn’t matter what weapon you have, if the bullets that are available to you, either as novice, or experienced reloader, doesn’t perform as advertised 100% of the time, you are at additional risk.

    A risk I was unwilling to take.

    Chris

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    So if the GA arms offering is inferior:
    -1- how inferior is it
    and
    -2- is there an economical source of commercial Gold Dots? I'm sick of shelling out ~$1/round and hoarding pitiful little 20x boxes.
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    I wouldn't label anything I've ever bought from GA as inferior in any way--if I seemed to imply that, I apologize. Rather, I think of the UCHP as a good, slow-expansion hunting HP (on the order of Hornady's XTP), while the GDHP expands more reliably and quickly at lower velocities.

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    I don't think this question is too far OT, but I was thinking that for wintertime around here, with folks wearing lots of clothes, I might be going to 158 gr plain jane soft-nosed jacketed bullets instead of the Remington Golden Sabres for carry.

    I'm talking a snubby loaded with .38 SPL +P 125 grain Remington loads, GS38SB, that I use in warm weather, but really asking about the general principle of going to a more "penetrating" round for winter, not about that specific ammunition.

    Since this has turned into a general discussion of bullet peculiarites and we have a bunch of experienced reloading/shooting folks sitting around in this thread, I would appreciate any comments on that.

    In other words, as a general principle, should folks change loads to ones that don't expand too readily for winter use because of the extra clothing worn?

    (I was thinking about starting a thread about this question, but this seems like an opportune time to ask it.)

    Terry, 230RN
    Trouble is, these jerkwads can pass dumb, self-serving, agenda-driven stupid laws much faster than we can beat them down in the courts. And they're well aware of that.

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    I believe both bullets to be bonded lead core to the jacket material as well as hollow points. The Gold Dot in some calibers are made in a short barrel version, and a regular barrel length. In the center of the gold dot is a steel or hard metal post visable as a darker colored dot, as well as having the tip of the jacket scored. The short barrel version just appears to have a larger hollowed area with perhaps a little thinner nose jacket. No clue how they do that and still maintain the same bullet weight. I believe both are self protection rounds.
    I have not used or seen the other, but I would guess a bonded core bullet that is a hollow point that may need a higher velocity for expanding, rather than a the jacket scoring. Pretty much settled on the Gold Dot for self protection, but would most likely look at the other for hunting in various calibers.

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    Terry,

    The following is NOT an answer. Just my opinion that may help you down the road.

    I NEVER accept anything anyone says, especially on a technical level, without researching. So, I donít expect you, or anyone else for that matter, to accept what Iím about to say. We are each responsible for our own decision(s). Hummm, now that sounds familiar !

    I suppose I poked the hole in a can of worms, and you, by your question, opened it further. This can of worms should really be labeled ďOpinionsĒ, of which there will be many. I will probably completely open it here, but then again, I try to think outside the box.

    The following opinion(s) is/are mine alone. Take them or leave them. Your opinion is just as valid as mine.

    One must REALISTICALLY determine an order of priority.

    First:
    For me, the highest priority was bullet performance. !!!!!!

    Second:
    With the above in mind, what type of weapon would lend itself to the above?

    Again, for me the answer was a revolver with a SJHP, available everywhere at WalMart, in Winchester White Box. For the reloader, the same bullet is available through Remington.

    This bullet, regardless of weight, performs as advertised 99.999% of the time. However, it does occasionally fragment into two or three pieces. It does this regardless of the amount of clothing it may encounter during itís travel. Something that cannot be said about ANY of the highly marketed SD, and expensive, rounds promulgated by the various manufacturers.

    So, the bottom line for me is still bullet performance. The sad fact that SJHP bullets are not available, or even recommended for a semi auto, seriously limits a semi user. But for the revolver, the choices are much easier.

    No one can realistically suggest any type of load/bullet that will satisfy your conditions. But just consider. Will a lump of lead on itís own react as predicted as compared to that same lump of lead surrounded by a copper jacket, in every case for both?

    This is the exact position I found myself in many years ago. We each need to make our own choice.

    So, basically, if the platform you are using will fulfill your requirements, considering the rounds available for that platform, then you are good to go. If not, a complete rethink may be in order.

    Chris

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    Is it wrong that I read the thread title as "Speer Bonded Unicorn Hollow Point"?
    Sow seed-but let no tyrant reap;
    Find wealth-let no impostor heap;
    Weave robes-let not the idle wear;
    Forge arms-in your defense to bear.

    -Percy Bysshe Shelley, Song to the Men of England, 1819

  18. #18
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    No, you and I both need to get our eyeglass Rxs checked.
    Trouble is, these jerkwads can pass dumb, self-serving, agenda-driven stupid laws much faster than we can beat them down in the courts. And they're well aware of that.

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