Any 351 or 401 winchester SL reloading dies or jsp bullets for reloading? or brass.
If you have any and dont need them I am interested.
PM me, Thanks
Any 351 or 401 winchester SL reloading dies or jsp bullets for reloading? or brass.
If you have any and dont need them I am interested.
PM me, Thanks
Graf & Sons has the 401 brass, but it is berdan unprimed.
is berdan primed good or bad?
I have never had any dealing with this type of primer.
Ron
European brass is usually Berdan and American brass is Boxer primed. Berdan primers are hard to find and come in different sizes. They are not classified as are the boxer primers (large rifle, small rifle, large pistol or small pistol), they are measured by diameter.
I will probably try to make the 401 out of some 7.62 brass , if I can find some good winchester type.
Ron
Ammunition for this elderly round is getting very difficult to find. It is one of those odd cartridges that you cannot reform from another cartridge until recently. Consequently you find old ammunition for $50.00 to $65.00 per box of 20 and are tickled to death when you find it.
Follow these instructions for ammunition.
Contact C&H tool and Die and tell them I sent you (Waxpushya) which means the legendary one LOL
Shell out about 170 for their kit which includes dies for the 401 and expander dies for the cases you will use and a bullet swaging die.
Go 2 Midway and get yourself 200 new cases for 7.62x39
Order some .410 bullets Semi Jacketed 200 grain bullets with a canalurel
I am assuming you have a RCBS Rockchucker or similar compound press (You either buy one first or buy one last)
Using the bullet swage die, swage all of your bullets down to .405 dia. Lubing them helps unless you have biceps like Popeye
Then use the three expander balls expand your case mouths. Lube the inside of the case necks. The last expander is the .406 the case with the die normally supplied in the 401 reloading set
Anneal the cases (Propane torch pan of water) there some good instructions elsewhere on annealing cases.
Length size them to 1.500 and if they come out a little short from the original resizing process don't sweat it . At least go over the necks with your L.E.Wilson deburing tool.
Then load some cases 10% below the table and go fire form them. Load tables are available elsewhere.
Then reload them as keepers.
This whole business costs about what 5 boxes of 20 cost on the open market currently so after you shoot 100 rounds you broke even.
Then have fun with it.
Waxpushya (The legendary one)
Last edited by Waxpush; September 22nd, 2010 at 03:54 PM. Reason: correct spelling
^^^ Welcome to The High Road!
Excellent first post!
Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.
Hi. Buffalo Arms carries dies, bullets and brass for both. Remember the .401 uses .406" bullets. Prices aren't too ugly, but not cheap either.
They list loaded ammo too, but it is pricey. $52 per 20 for the .401. $35 per 20 for the .351.
There's a .35 Winchester too. Isn't the same thing.
I have data for both whenever you need it.
When I talked to Buffalo Arms they only could furnish 250 grain Bullets. The 250 Grain was discontinued by the major Bullet Manufacturers early on approximately 1929. However, they continued making the 200 grain round until in the late 1950's. Following the logic of what the manufacturers thought to be the optimum round I stayed with 200 Grain and purchase 200-210 Grain bullets for the process. Have had no major malfunctions and have produced 500 Rounds Using this method.
If any one finds a 15 Round Clip I would appreciate them telling me and sending pictures. My favorite bullet is Hornady 210 Grain Hollow point. It sure puts big holes in things. And, I have been loading them with 21 grains of 2400 powder. The cases come out of the process.050 shorter than factory so I am letting them grow to factory specifications of 1.500 inches.
Last edited by Waxpush; March 19th, 2011 at 07:05 AM. Reason: Spelling
A few years ago I purchased 700 bullets from Old Western Scrounger for my 1905 Winchester in .35 Winchester Self Loading.
The bullets are 180 gr., full metal jacket, and .351" diameter. I got an okay deal because they were in the bargain bin.
Might want to check that site and see if they still offer them. I could have purchased softpoints at the same price, but was more concerned with relaible feeding. Hunting was not something I planned
The .351" softpoint, as I understand it, had difficulty mushrooming because so little of the lead was exposed. This dissatisfied a lot of shooters. Reportedly, the .401 had more lead exposed, and being larger in diameter it was more prone to expand. Deer hunters swore by it. I recall it was nicknamed, "Thor's Hammer" for its hard smack-down on deer.
The .35 Winchester Self Loading was only made in the 1905 model.
Two years later,Winchester lengthened the .35 WSL case a wee bit, added a litttle extra powder, and offered it in an almost identical rifle named the Model 1907. This shot the same 180 gr. bullet at slightly higher velocity; this cartridge was named the .351 Winchester Self Loading.
This was reportedly a more sure deer killer, owing to its slightly higher velocity. Reportedly, this higher velocity helped the bullet and its meager lead nose expand.
The 1907 in .351 (its only caliber) was used by the French in World War I, and early combat pilots of that war. France even made the ammo at one time. This was before machine guns were mounted on aircraft, and pilots exchanged shots in the air.
Amazing to think that they had reliable, magazine-fed, centerfire semi-autos beginning in 1905.
Contrary to frequent mispostings, the rifle was NOT designed by John Browning. I can't recall offhand who designed it, but mine works quite reliably. It's a three-digit serial number, made first year of production: 1905.
Alas, the 1905 only came with a 5-round magazine.
The 1907 could be ordered with 5, 10 and I believe 20-round magazines. It was liked by law enforcement into the 1960s. Prison and armored car guards used the 1907 into the 1970s. With a high capacity magazine, and little recoil, it could spit out .35-caliber bullets accurately and quickly.
One of the lawmen who ended the murderous career of Bonnie & Clyde used a 1907 .351 to good effect. May they burn still.
Check Gad Custom Cartridges' website to see if it sells lead bullets of .351 and .401 diameter, for these old self-loading rounds. Gad carries a nice variety of obsolete bullets and ammo.
Cases are difficult to find for the .351 and .401. Bertram may have them but it's pricey. As noted above, I believe that Buffalo Arms carries them too; I wasn't aware that they're Berdan primed.
CH4D sells dies at the best price, and they are very good dies. Other die makers will charge significantly more.
Avoid one dangerous practice: I've read of shooters using the .38 Super in their .35 WSL and .351 WSL. The .38 Super is a high-pressure cartridge, loaded with a bullet of .355 to .356 diameter. Shoving that oversized bullet down a .350 to .351 inch bore is not safe. Anyone who tries this is a fool.
Get the proper diameter bullets, and proper cases.
Be leery of old reloading data. It may have been assembled in semi-ballon cases, with greater capacity than today's modern cases. I'd reduce any old starting load by at least 10 percent, then work up from there.
The old, Winchester self loading centerfires are fascinating rifles.
One last word of advice: stand on the edge of a big tarp when firing, so you can find those valuable cases after the smoke clears.
"And therein did I see an ugly cat. Blue smoke. Brimstone. Holes in paper. And this ugly cat was much amused." --- the prophesies of Gatodamus (1503 - 1566).
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