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Thread: Stopping power ? weak 5.56 ? (explicit pictures)

  1. #1
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    Stopping power ? weak 5.56 ? (explicit pictures)

    A friend of mine (Darius), on Feu-Libre, recently posted a serie of pictures that he got from a friend in Mexico, about a Police operation that didn't go just smooth as it was planned..

    The only caliber used in this operation was 5.56mm, from both side..

    As he wrote in his own thread, these images are not there to shock, or just to be obscene... It's just a way to see what the reality IS, and forget about the "hollywood" idea of gunfights.. Gunfiights, wars and deaths are ugly..

    It will also weaken the myth of the inoffensive 5.56mm... 5.56 isnt a toy gun caliber, and can be really devastating when used at the operative ranges..

    I warn you, if you go ahead be prepared to see some crude pictures, expect blood, and flesh.. Maybe it can give people more respect for their weapons, and bring them back to reality. Respect safety rules, ALWAYS, and never understimate a round, only because it's .22 diameter bullet....

    I warn you again, don't go ahead if you are not sure..





































































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  2. #2
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    It's good to get a dose of reality every once in a while. While very graphic, I do appreciate you posting these pictures.

    Seeing all that makes me wonder if anyone survived.
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  3. #3
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    seems that not everybody do like a dose of reality.. My thread has been erased without any comment or PM from the .org moderators..

    EDIT: I got an explanation. Fair enough !
    Last edited by Shung; January 30th, 2010 at 05:57 PM.
    Swiss gun collector and shooter.. and proud of it !
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    WOW, hope those are the bad guys!!!

    Getting shot with ANY high power round is liable to result in death, my concern with .556 has always been just how quickly that occurs. From the fact that so many of those bodies are still in the vehicle, and in the open, I have to assume they dropped quickly.

    I for one appreciate you posting that, WITH THE WARNING! Seeing the pics isn't pleasant, but then, neither is wondering if the weapon in your hand is going to stop the approaching threat!!!

    FWIW, while I have an AR for defensive work, my go to gun is still a 12 guage!

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    Doesn't appear weak to me.
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    It is surprising to me that the bullets didn't fragment after striking auto glass.
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    FMJ probably.. maybe 62gr out of a short barrel with a 1/7 twist.. it's known to go through without fragmenting too much..
    Swiss gun collector and shooter.. and proud of it !
    Geneva is not about conventions. It's where I live ;)

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    What's interesting to me in the pictures is that the US government supplied both sides with weapons.

    Can we get an ATF trace on those guns?
    "There is no lie too grotesque, too stupid, or too base for leftist extremists to retell." -- Standing Wolf

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    What's interesting to me in the pictures is that the US government supplied both sides with weapons.
    I had no idea you knew so much about this shooting. Do you have any more details to share?

  10. #10
    Well, I already had dinner, coincidently, I ate meatloaf and a baked sweet potato with extra (red) cinnamon. That last picture was a shot from behind, luckliy for his next of kin that cell phone just needs to be wiped clean. I guess we won't be arguing the merits of .223 vs .308 for a while.

  11. #11
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    I think after Johnny Malvo we could have answered that question several years ago, but nope, idiocy abounds.

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    Yep, definetely graphic. Though not my first choice for a deer or hog gun, shoot a few and you will see it is not a wimpy round. Handloads even better, though in this fight no doubt commercial. To echo a previous question, are these all BG's or are some police?
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    I had no idea you knew so much about this shooting. Do you have any more details to share?
    Titan, put your glasses on, buddy. Those are M16s in the picture. They sure as hell didn't come from a gun store in Laredo.
    "There is no lie too grotesque, too stupid, or too base for leftist extremists to retell." -- Standing Wolf

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    The officer is not carrying an AR.

    The ARs littering the ground are a mixed bag, neither appears to have anything other than a semi-auto switch.

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    I have been telling people for a few years that the 5.56 does more damage than all the neighsayers. I tried to relay my experiance with exacting descriptions of the damage done by the 5.56, and the ranges to which it could effectively make a kill (alot further than most people think). Even though my experiances were from actual combat, I was most often told I didn't know what I was talking about. Well here we are, I just didn't have the pictures to prove it. That drivers head, I have seen that kind of damage from a single 5.56 round to the head. Movie special effects, no matter how gory, do not fully relate the real damage that is done. The 5.56 does not tumble, it was not designed to tumble as many "experts" say it was. When shots are fired, they can, and often do massive amounts of damage.
    OK, done ranting, for now.

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    Oleg Volk commented:

    It is surprising to me that the bullets didn't fragment after striking auto glass.
    It was surprising to me that so few of them actually made holes in the windshields (windscreens).

    Is that what you were actually commenting on? That was the first thing that occured to me on one or two of the pics.

    (I didn't mind the graphic nature of the pics. Reality is reality.)

    Terry, 230RN
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    I think everybody who believes in guns for self defense needs to be able to cope with pics like this, in order to be able to help with the aftermath without puking if possible. Seriously, I've treated some pretty gross wounds on myself and others when some other people couldn't. We have to be able to put the "grossout factor" aside in an emergency.

    That doesn't mean we should ever enjoy pics like this, but we have to be able to face reality in case we REALLY have to face reality, in real life.
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    The officer is not carrying an AR.
    I dunno. He has a gloved hand over the receiver of what looks like a flat top M16 to me. Besides, these days I am in Mexico often, and the LEOs in Mexico, as well as the troops in Baja Cali and Sonora are definitely carrying M16s in multiple variants. I have seen them up close. And as for the ones on the ground, you'd have a hard time proving they weren't M16s.

    Plus, there have been several articles in Sol de Mexico and El Financiero concerning that many of the guns recovered in clashes with narcotics traffickers. According to these publications, many of the guns, including crew-served weapons, come from the inventory of the Mexican military, most of which is supplied by the US government under various trade and aid agreements.

    Further south, in Guatemala and and Nicaragua, AKs are more prevalent.
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  19. #19
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    Pictures really don't tell you that much. The AR/M-16/M4 and 5.56/.223 come in such a multiplicity of combinations that you can mix and match for any given scenario and make it work. What makes a weapon shine as a legend is one weapon and one load and all climates and scenarios and it works.
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    If we saw more images like this in the MSM,
    this country would wake up to the horror of war/s and we would take to the streets to
    stop it. Kind if like what happened in the 60's/70's.

    Guess the MSM's handlers know it's better to NOT show reality since the Vietnam era, huh?
    To do so would sway public opinion and force governments
    hand into doing the People's Will, NOT the elite's will...
    (who seem to always get us into these messes for personal financial gains. like the 'war on drugs')...

  21. #21
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    ^ +1

    I was going to add something like that to my comment about not being offended by the pics, but decided not to, so thanks.

    I was also going to comment about how many hundreds of those varmint rounds were required to put down those 150-200 lb (70-90 kg) varmints, but I didn't. Aren't I noble and diplomatic and conciliatory and "cordial?"

    Has anyone made a bullet-hole-count?

    I've heard of the legendary "one-shot-stops." So now we can talk about legendary "thousand-shot-stops?"

    Sorry, but this presentation does not give evidence of "stopping power," especially looking at those windshields (windscreens).

    It looks like it's barely evidence of "discouraging power."

    After all, you can make a single shot stop with a shot to the head even with a pellet rifle without ruining the upholstery. Much.

    If you can aim rather than just (s)pray.

    Terry, 230RN
    Last edited by 230RN; January 31st, 2010 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Remove even worse inflammatory remarks.
    "Gun control is not about public safety, crime reduction, or 'the children.' Gun control is about power. The people have it, and the government would rather they didn't." (An internet poster, not myself.)

  22. #22
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    5.56 is a lot like 9mm, it can work very well but is very dependent on the ammunition where larger calibers have more leeway in that department.

    Pictures really don't tell you that much. The AR/M-16/M4 and 5.56/.223 come in such a multiplicity of combinations that you can mix and match for any given scenario and make it work.
    I was going to say the same thing, they could be M4 / M-16s but could just as easily just be AR-15s.
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    It looks like the Suburban was taking fire from both the front, and the 3/4 rear. Some of the windshield damage is likely from fragments from the rear, while there are several distinct holes from the fire from the front.

    While this won't settle the 30 cal vs 5.56 mm debate, it does reiterate that yes, bullets will kill you dead.

    What would be more interesting, would be some more back story, who were the good guys, who were the bad guys, what worked, what tactics failed. What was the net outcome (other than a bunch of hamburger) -Successful raid, failed bust, assassination of a bunch of federales?
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    5.56mmNATO Blitz-JHP rounds?...

    Do you have any idea what kind of 5.56/.223 rounds were used? Some of the gunshot victims look like they were hit with JHP or AP rounds. FMJ loads would be the some common I'd think but I'm sure some of the drug gangs or cartels can get high tech tracer/AP/hollow point type ammo.

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  25. #25
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    Can it do a great deal of damage? Yep. Will it do it as reliably as some other calibers? Nope. Penetrate barriers as well? Nope. Etc etc etc

    All that being said, since no one has any say in what I carry I really don't care what anyone on here thinks. Use what you want, I'll use what I want, and there's no need to go fussing at each other.
    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
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