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Thread: Stopping power ? weak 5.56 ? (explicit pictures)

  1. #51
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    This looked to be a relatively close up and personal gun fight. This is where 5.56 with hi-cap magazines really shines. At any real rifle range, I'd still want a .30 cal rifle.
    Best,
    Rob

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmkivseries70
    hi-cap magazines
    I was wondering when this antigun term would show up.

    Do you think those Mexicans were using that totally developmental (and entirely fictional) 101 round version of the Charlie Mag?

    There isn't any such animal as a "hi-cap mag". It's an expired "legalism" (ban has lapsed) brought on by antigunners.

    Theoretical legalism: If Congress passes a law that says the new word for "cows" is "bricks", do you think we'll be able to build a house that moos?

    Please don't use antigun terms indiscriminately - it just stimulates any antis who read it. .
    "Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list.

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  3. #53
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    Yep, I think this thread brings to an end all the caliber wars.

    In a real life situation, there is no such thing as 5.56 vs 7.62 or 9mm vs. 45.

    Air rifles have been used to take down hogs, and even one of the US Air Force's survival guns, the AR-7, is chambered in .22 LR. (At least Henry Rifle Company builds them in .22 LR)

    Interesting story I want to share:

    During the Anti-Japanese war in China, a lot of interesting weapons were used by partisan fighters who did not have guns, at least yet. One of these things is the simple match powder "gun", basically a small metal tube filled with powder from kitchen matches loaded under a lead ball or something similar. A primer is on the other end, no trigger, hammer or anything. Many of these things were used by female partisans, who would be disguised as a prostitute or opera singer. She would lure a Japanese officer into a private den above a saloon, and when all is clear, pull out the tube, place the business end over the back of the soldier's neck, and strike on the other end with a hard object. The device made a noise that is less than a "pop". In fact, the projectile and the gases had practically less energy than a Daisy BB gun. However, when all of the muzzle gases and projectile was directed straight into the back of the soldier's neck, the results were devastating. The resistance fighter in disguise would then take the soldier's guns and equipment and give it to her comrades outside.

    One poster here mentioned that the brain (as well as the entire human body) is composed of almost entirely water. Absolutely. What happens when water is suddenly compressed by a lot of pressure? You get a hydraulic wave. Even the tiny improvised matchpowder tube gun made a wound on the Japanese soldier like a wound from a 9mm bullet at midrange.
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  4. #54
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    It goes there because others have a bigoted view on several things, why in the overall success of military and superior fire power lies in number you can carry and to supply a foot soldier...The after math was caused by the 223 round it appears...Good or bad the evidence you are looking at is sufficiant to reveal the rounds did the job they were asked of...

    Why the military went to the 9mm and 223 Logistics...


    I'm confused as why this will reduce a .223 vs .308 debate. I'm pretty much positive that this wasn't a long range shootout; and that with what I'm seeing in the van windshield there, that a 308 would have all but guaranteed punctures through the windows and windshield every round. Also, I see very little expansion. One comment I will make is that the groupings are fairly good considering it a firefight.
    Lets look at it again on number of rounds... 223 about 2.5 times the number of 308...9mm is similar in 2 times the number...

    So helicopter bringing in the ammo...It becomes pretty apparant to me...

    Regards

  5. #55
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    Originally Posted by robmkivseries70
    hi-cap magazines

    I was wondering when this antigun term would show up.
    I feel you are being way too sensitive in your complaint. Maybe it is "antigun" to you, but to me it's a plain English term that is properly descriptive.

    There are low capacity magazines and guns and high capacity ones. Those are accurate terms, before or after the federal limits.

    The Browning High Power was named because of it's high capacity (13 rounds). Should we rename the gun because of some interim use of the word "high"?

    Ken

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken101
    I feel you are being way too sensitive in your complaint. Maybe it is "antigun" to you, but to me it's a plain English term that is properly descriptive.

    There are low capacity magazines and guns and high capacity ones. Those are accurate terms, before or after the federal limits.

    The Browning High Power was named because of it's high capacity (13 rounds). Should we rename the gun because of some interim use of the word "high"?
    You have "designed capacity" referred to before the AWB as simply " a [gun model] magazine") and "legislated capacity" (now known as "ban mags"). As I recall back in the 70s and 80s, we used the terms "double stack" or "single stack" when referring to magazines. It was the AWB that brought us the legalism "high capacity" when referring to magazines.

    No designer designs a "high cap" magazine for their guns. They design the best capacity for the purpose in which the gun is meant to be used. If this just happens to produce a 30 round .22WMR pistol, than 30 rounds is it's intended capacity. Should Tapco or Ramline start producing 45 round .22WMR mags for said pistol after it's introduction, those could be considered "high capacity", as they weren't included as part of the original design.

    The term "hi-cap" (or it's other permutations) is used by the antigunners to evilize gun parts so they can more easily ban them.

    The Hi-Power utilized the (to the Europeans of 1935) "high power" 9mm Parabellum, and the name has nothing to do with the mag capacity.
    "Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list.

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  7. #57
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    The whole head coming apart thing... you guys are assuming somebody didn't stand 1ft from the driver and empty a mag, I don't think that happened with one shot, I don't thing anything here happened in one shot...
    "Guns are swell" - me

  8. #58
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    I have shot racoons one time with an AR-15 and it produced a very similar effect .

  9. #59
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    Originally Posted by robmkivseries70
    hi-cap magazines

    I was wondering when this antigun term would show up. End Quote:

    Nope, not meant to be a political comment. Just a matter of technique. (Spray and Pray perhaps?) The use of the M-XX platform is evolving into that of a machine pistol. Guess I am too much of an "Aimed Fire" guy. No politics intended for the magazine capacity.
    Best,
    Rob

  10. #60
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    QuoteThis looked to be a relatively close up and personal gun fight. This is where 5.56 with hi-cap magazines really shines. At any real rifle range, I'd still want a .30 cal rifle.
    Best,
    Rob"

    What is a real rifle range? .308 wont shoot as flat out to 300 yds as .223 .
    "

  11. #61
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    The whole head coming apart thing... you guys are assuming somebody didn't stand 1ft from the driver and empty a mag, I don't think that happened with one shot, I don't thing anything here happened in one shot...
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    No, sorry. If this thread does one thing, I hope it makes people realise how much damage to the human body- and especially head - a single centerfire rifle round will do. I have seen it, and i can guarantee a single centerfire round can do that much damage, and more. I can guarantee it was one round, because it was a suicide...

    It was a .30-06, but i have no doubt .223 would do very similar damage, even if i hadn't seen these pictures...

    Its real. Its 1 shot. Remember.

  12. #62
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    It greatly depends on the ammunition used as well. 75 grain TAP followed by 77 grain Sierra OTM has very impressive performance.

    The 55 / 62 grain FMJ our military uses may or may not fragment even at close range. Even different bullets from the same lot may perform differently.

    When they fragment they are can cause pretty impressive wounding and I have no doubt it could cause that type of trauma to the head.
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  13. #63
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    All of this discussion about what this or that bullet "does" is just silly. In my own testing of the calibers that I own, I found very early on that every single shot is a unique event. This was most obvious when I was photographing the results of shooting 1 liter water bottles with a Glock 17. (Photobucket is down for maintenance right now, so I can't post anything). In every single image, the targets reacted differently. We don't know what all the bullet passed thru before it reached that guy.
    I daresay that if you were to line up 10 coconuts and shoot them all from the same distance with the same ammo type in the gun that was used to break that head, you would see various results. In this particular case, it wouldn't have mattered if the bullet just passed straight thru. Our boy would still be in the same dejected posture.

  14. #64
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    Its real. Its 1 shot. Remember.
    Oh, ok. Remember.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shung View Post
    A friend of mine (Darius), on Feu-Libre, recently posted a serie of pictures that he got from a friend in Mexico, about a Police operation that didn't go just smooth as it was planned..

    The only caliber used in this operation was 5.56mm, from both side..

    As he wrote in his own thread, these images are not there to shock, or just to be obscene... It's just a way to see what the reality IS, and forget about the "hollywood" idea of gunfights.. Gunfiights, wars and deaths are ugly..

    It will also weaken the myth of the inoffensive 5.56mm... 5.56 isnt a toy gun caliber, and can be really devastating when used at the operative ranges..

    I warn you, if you go ahead be prepared to see some crude pictures, expect blood, and flesh.. Maybe it can give people more respect for their weapons, and bring them back to reality. Respect safety rules, ALWAYS, and never understimate a round, only because it's .22 diameter bullet....

    I warn you again, don't go ahead if you are not sure..





































































    your pathetic photos totally means nothin you idiot...that guy in car have massacred face becouse take lot of shot and yes 5.56x45 are WEAK and have BAD STOPING POWER...check on sitel like bestgorte in category egzecutions...guys who are shoted in head with 5.56 have only little bigger exit wound but when some guy is shooted by brutal 7.62
    x39 hes face are just exploded...5.56 have bad stoping power you can't kill big guy in torso with one shot if you don't hit him in hear but on 7.62 easy but the 5.56 have better vectority, less recoil and is more important on battlefield and you have loto f videos that prove it the 5.56 have bad stopind power and bad penetration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky7Zb6inCEU

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
    WOW, hope those are the bad guys!!!

    Getting shot with ANY high power round is liable to result in death, my concern with .556 has always been just how quickly that occurs. From the fact that so many of those bodies are still in the vehicle, and in the open, I have to assume they dropped quickly.

    I for one appreciate you posting that, WITH THE WARNING! Seeing the pics isn't pleasant, but then, neither is wondering if the weapon in your hand is going to stop the approaching threat!!!

    FWIW, while I have an AR for defensive work, my go to gun is still a 12 guage!
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  17. #67
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    Looks like we have a troll that can't keep his anger and insults in check.
    When and how did I become a senior member? Remember don't drink the Kool-aid!!

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  18. #68
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    Question:

    Wouldn't aiming to stop be more appropriate and get better results? I would think a 22 between the eyes would be more effective than a 45 in the shoulder.

    Woody
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    BTW, I asked a few guys I met in Iraq about the 5.56mm stopping power....

    ...they didn't say anything.
    I was talking to an Army buddy of mine about nothing in particular and somehow the topic of the .50BMG came up. He said he got to shoot an M2 before. I knew what his MOS was in the Army and firing an M2 was not in the job description. I asked what he was shooting with it, expecting him to tell me about some fun he had on a firing range. He got quiet and I changed the subject.
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
    FWIW, while I have an AR for defensive work, my go to gun is still a 12 guage!
    I saw what different calibers can do against "bulletproof" glass and I was surprised at what a 12 gauge slug can do. I don't recall the thickness of the glass used in this experiment but I thought it looked quite thick, like the glass on the dispensing booth at the pharmacy.

    The handguns they used didn't even produce a mark, with the exception of the .44 magnum which made a mild dent. Most of the rifles left a mark but none when through. When they fired at it with a 12 gauge slug it left a gaping hole.

    Another note about the utility of the 12 gauge... I remember a picture from the manhunt after the Boston marathon bombing, in it there was a group of police officers all geared up. There were something like four or five men in the frame all with weapons in hand. They were all carrying AR style rifles except the grey haired man in front, he had a shotgun.

    I have little doubt in my mind that this man in the lead was a senior officer and therefore had some authority to choose his own weapon. What I have to wonder is if the others were ordered to carry an AR or chose to do so. This was a house by house, block by block, search for two potentially armed men on the run. If in that situation I'd think I'd choose a shotgun too.
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