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Thread: Article: Man Arrested For Buying 3 Legal Guns

  1. #26
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    Hmmm, this sounds like a case of a so-called 'mental hygiene' statute. If Oregon has such a law this could easily be a perfectly legal detainment. Mind I did not say moral or fair just legal.

  2. #27
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    When did we stop needing evidence of a crime or wrongdoing before calling in the swat teams? My neighbor has a dog that looks a little neglected... should I call SWAT and tell them something looks suspicious? He's a preacher, after all... and these could be "aggressive" dogs... does that meet the threshold?

    Will they close the street and search their house at 3 a.m. if I tell them that I've heard him say something that could be construed as "threatening", or would they respect his right to preach, or invite him out in the yard in the middle of the night to surrender?

    This particular case is embaressing, and wrong, on so many levels of law enforcement, civil rights, constitutional authority and just plain "right and wrong", that it amazes me. I knew China was expanding their borders, but I wasn't aware that the commies had already opened for business here.

    NONE OF US ARE SAFE NOW... (not paranoia, just reading the news)...

    WT
    "What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?"... from "Kingdom of Heaven"
    True patriots feel that there is no problem in our Republic that cannot be solved by election, windage and elevation, or superior firepower.

  3. #28
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    I've been waiting for an update on a the person who started the event...

    Let's not miss the FIRST link in the chain that started the cops' over reaction. Somebody called police (and made false report?).

    Cops and other officials are just too dang busy to drive around looking for people who are recently laid off, and then go investigating to see if they recently bought guns, and then ask around to see if they have an attitude. Cops are just way too busy for that crap.

    No, SOMEBODY called the police and told them that a man is dangerous and disgruntled and just bought guns. I've been waiting to find out who that person was, and why they did that.

    Spectre or anyone else, if you have an update please post.

  4. #29
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    Dear officer wife; I believe the Germans made it legal to kill Jews? so were do you draw the line with legal and moral?

  5. #30
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    so were do you draw the line with legal and moral?
    You are asking the wrong person, I do not make the laws simply try to live with them as best I can.

  6. #31
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    Consent? Under duress? Private citizen how about a defimation law suit against who ever made the report.

    Next question? Did he have the right to legal council during the mental health questioning?

  7. #32
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    Next question? Did he have the right to legal council during the mental health questioning?
    He wouldn't need it, doctor/patient confidentiality would apply. [/sarcasm off]

  8. #33
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    After the 2008 election many of us were disgruntled, and many of us purchased firearms. I guess that we were lucky that they didn't round us all up for medical evaluation.
    Lew Wallace was an optimist.

    I want my country back!

  9. #34
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    I agree with the "who called it in?" idea. Someone got this rolling.

    I will say, though, that guy who has had his income compromised isn't likely to go out and spend $1,000+ on guns "just because."

    However, he shouldn't be under surveillance in the first place, either.

    --Wag--
    "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

  10. #35
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    Am I the only one that thinks that this guy getting fired and buying a firearm are two completely unrelated activities? I've probably bought 6 or 7 guns since getting laid off at my job, but it has nothing to do with getting laid off... just found good deals on the guns at the gun shop. Why am I buying guns?.. it's my hobby, and I tend to change my collection depending on my mood... sometimes I'm on a "rifle kick" and other times a "pistol kick".

    The O.P. in this case seems to have several issues... first of all, whoever called the cops on the victim should be in big trouble... and should be sued accordingly. Secondly, the cops, for taking the guy into custody and placing him under mental observation without a court hearing should be held liable for their actions. Thirdly, somebody should be in big trouble for having his house surrounded by the swat team and giving a public impression that he was a "dangerous person" without any previous history of unstable actions... that's defamation. The fourth problem is the illegal search of his household without warrants and seizing of his personal property without warrants. Somebody ought to be going to jail over that. I'd call that burglary... regardless of whether the police were doing it, or a burglar off the street.

    This whole case seems to be predicated on "pre-emptive law enforcement" being put into play because somebody got nervous after firing an employee. Seems the onus should be on them to prove that this guy was a threat, and simply exercising his right to go buy a gun doesn't muster that kind of proof. It might allow them to have him watched for aggressive behavior, but our legal system reacts to actions, not suppositions... and if the guy has not done anything out of place, he should own everybody that took part in this fiasco... right down to their shoe laces.

    WT
    "What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?"... from "Kingdom of Heaven"
    True patriots feel that there is no problem in our Republic that cannot be solved by election, windage and elevation, or superior firepower.

  11. #36
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    Am I the only one that thinks that this guy getting fired and buying a firearm are two completely unrelated activities?
    Considering the attention he got that's a difference that makes no difference.

  12. #37
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    The folks who are getting paid to keep the peace and protect others decided to step in...

    Multiple gun purchase, always in CA will cause you a look see and if you are in a situation that might be questionable, will not allow those sales to happn...They put the pressure on the dealers in CA... No way can you receive them dealer will not allow, DOJ tells them to hold and will guide the person, most of the time...

    Regards

  13. #38
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    I'm sure that keeping people to one gun a day keeps you Californians really safe, Harley ... but the citizens of the rest of the nation don't become rabid violent predators just because they buy two guns at the same time.
    DON'T PANIC

  14. #39
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    Hi Dave,

    I'm sure that keeping people to one gun a day keeps you Californians really safe, Harley ... but the citizens of the rest of the nation don't become rabid violent predators just because they buy two guns at the same time.
    You are trying to define the law and it's enforcement by common sense. The two are not even related much less compatible.

  15. #40
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    The fact is Dave it is the law and not much I can do about it, I just used it as a similarity and if that is beyond many to understand so be it...

    It does seem interesting that it was done in a state that might have a similar law on the books and its not really my problem, but some appear to want to make it personal, I have noticed here of late...

    Regards

  16. #41
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    Have there been any updates about this case?
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

    http://czforumsite.info/

  17. #42
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    Here's some updates on this Zombie thread:

    The man's name was David Pyles, and the initial Mail Tribune articles would have you believe the guy was a complete whackjob with murder on his mind, noting, among other things, a marked decrease in personal hygiene in the recent past. Yeesh. One article (which links to many others, look for the "Related Stories" box in blue) linked below:

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...8/NEWS/3280325

    The Oregon Firearms Federation give a lot of alternative perspective on the matter (more links therein).

    http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

    Regardless of who's telling the truth, everyone's stories align with illegal search and seizure, at the very least.

    Finally, note that the guy didn't lose his job and then decide to become a gun owner; he was told he'd have to work from home, and he was merely adding to his existing firearms collection (using his tax refund). To me, there's a night and day difference between the initially described circumstances and reality.
    Speed is fine, Accuracy is final.

  18. #43
    Regardless of who's telling the truth, everyone's stories align with illegal search and seizure, at the very least.


    really?

  19. #44
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    Sorry, I don't pick up on internet sarcasm very well, so I'll assume you're serious.

    Yeah, the PD took all the man's legally-possessed firearms from his home after not arresting him, but taking him into "protective custody." Anything he "agreed" to, he did so under duress. Based on his previous encounter with the law (at the DOT office), it's pretty clear the guy is not one to waive any rights; he said he closed his door behind him, and didn't invite the PD into his home for a snoop.

    I'm sure this holds no water in court, due to some lawyer-speak mumbo-jumbo, but it's fairly cut-and-dried to me. That's my 2.
    Speed is fine, Accuracy is final.

  20. #45
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    Just a little what if here...

    I have a friend that reacts to disappointments by shopping, usually buying shoes. I've yet to hear of anyone suggesting she plans to walk a protest against whatever disappointed her, much less have the police confiscate the shoes. And the right to keep and bear shoes aren't specifically protected by the Constitution.

  21. #46
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    Psst, "Keep and Wear"...
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

    http://czforumsite.info/

  22. #47
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    one more reason to work against the rise of police-state....
    Paul
    People have some respect for the complexity of technology. But almost every ignorant fool thinks he understands money and economics.

  23. #48
    he had a previous leo encounter at the dot office? when?

  24. #49
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    Question

    The last time I quit a job, I went to look at cars.... I needed one anyway. The car people weren't too happy about the job part, but nobody complained about the gun on my belt....

    (OK, nobody saw it.... )

    Being semi-retired now (the fools who fired me ended up having to hire my replacement an assistant within two weeks; almost made it worth it ), I spend my spare time seeking a gruntled postal worker....

    If the guy celebrated his "retirement" or whatever event by blowing a tax return (the wife refuses to let me do that) on a couple guns, why not?

    (Makes one wonder how anybody found out, btw.)

    Worst case would be the suggestion that somebody from the PD check in on the guy - generally the Patrolmen and Sergeants are sharp enough to take a good guess - and see what's going on.

    There are laws in place in most states that allow this sort of thing, btw. Back when I was active as a rent-a-cop, I had the authority to stick somebody in the happy home for a while (I forget how long - maybe 48 hours) as a potential mental problem. (I expect that's changed - certainly a rental can't do it anymore. I think.... Be damned dangerous from a liability perspective....) "Safekeeping" may indeed be a good idea if the guy lives alone, no alarm, etc., after the publicity.

    What shows up here, though, is that it was wrong....

    (And, yes, I'd call it an arrest - at least it would be here in OH, although there probably are a few legal ways to get around it.)

    Regards,
    Stu

    (Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

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  25. #50
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    @cassandrasdaddy

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...8/NEWS/4080312

    The previous encounter is described in the article above. I've quoted some factual portions below (I believe this to be fair use).

    "Transportation department managers called OSP, the agency that provides security for state offices, to stand by at the office at 100 Antelope Road, White City, while administrators from Roseburg notified Pyles about the leave, say reports by OSP Sgts."

    "Pyles recorded the conversation and took photographs of those present."

    "Pyles called 9-1-1 a short time later to say he had been threatened at work."

    So, despite being called irrational several times in the police report, it sounds like he was simply stressed out (reasonably so), but acted rationally to cover his legal bases. He knew his rights, and exercised them.
    Last edited by billyjmc; February 17th, 2011 at 09:01 PM. Reason: mis-attribution of the "irrational" name-calling
    Speed is fine, Accuracy is final.

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