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Thread: Start Our Own

  1. #1
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    Question Start Our Own

    In my opinion, the NRA is too weak-willed to truly defend our rights. The other 2A organizations are too small to have any real impact. US Government is being packed with communards and gun-haters.

    I'm starting to think that a pro-2A organization along the lines of Star Trek's Section 31 or Mass Effect's Cerberus are going to be needed soon. Your thoughts?
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  2. #2
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    The NRA is losing some steam or so the liberal media will have us think. They are dabbling in too much of the politics and not enough action. They have recently had some antis of their own on the board. This hurt them probably more than anything. OTOH the SAF is really jumping in the game . They are kickin arse and taking names. Instead of a few large groups of Gun organizations taking on the gov I would like to see some state orientated and other groups jump in the game. I want the antis being attacked from every angle until they just dont have the will to fight anymore.

  3. #3
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    I think recent success has stirred up a lot of infighting among the Pro-2nd Amendment groups - squabbling over the glory and pointing fingers about who does what.

    I choose to support groups based on what they do, not what they don't do. I am a yearly NRA member and will likely become a life member when I can afford it. I also support the Second Amendment Foundation. On the state level, I support SCOPE and NYSRPA. All of these groups promote the 2nd Amendment in ways that I appreciate, so they get my support.

    Please think twice about abandoning the NRA just because they aren't picking every fight. They still have tremendous pull - and that comes from the members. And they still provide valuable services that are not directly related to fighting the antis, but help us as shooters.

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    I never said that I was going to abandon the NRA, merely that I don't think they go far enough. I for one am all for dismantling the ATF, handing their labs over to the FBI, sending the top level management to Afghanistan and firing the rest.
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    sending the top level management to Afghanistan and firing the rest
    That is unfair to the Afghans, and probably violates the Hague Convention, Geneva Convention, and The Laws of War. Cruel, malicious, cruel, and unusual.
    When the going gets tough the tough get cyclic!
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    I'm starting to think that a pro-2A organization along the lines of Star Trek's Section 31 or Mass Effect's Cerberus are going to be needed soon. Your thoughts?
    Gee, and we can use The Matrix as a model for foreign policy.

    Better yet, we could use Avatar as a model for military policy.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world............
    Jamie

    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

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    I for one am all for dismantling the ATF, handing their labs over to the FBI, sending the top level management to Afghanistan and firing the rest.
    Excuse me? My husband would have to depend on those people to keep him alive! Ship them out to Customs Service or possibly Department of Corrections, not somewhere where there is a mission to be accomplished.

  8. #8
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    In my opinion, the NRA is too weak-willed to truly defend our rights
    That tells me that you need to do a lot more in-depth research into the MASSIVE chess game the NRA is involved in. Half the things people "believe" the NRA is inactive on are pieces that are serving the purpose of blocking/locking up our opponents resources so that the primary pieces can make moves.

    Politics is the art of the possible.
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    "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on"

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    JMHO, but the NRA is trying to get actively involved in everything, and is losing sight of the goal. Any time you make a deal with the devil, you're still hooked to the devil, and if the NRA wants to dabble in politics, elections, etc. they need a separate organization for that. The NRA-ILA gives that appearance, but they also in practical terms are nothing more than fund raisers.

    If I haven't learned anything else in my life, it's that any time an organization becomes the "key organization" for anything, it's merely a method of channeling the money involved to "the right people". I"m perfectly happy for the NRA to push their marksmanship and shooting programs, but they need to step off the political bus and disassociate themselves from all the political shennagins of Washington and the antis.

    I don't really have a plan for them, but it's clear to me that they have their fingers in too many pies, and like the old saying goes "they have forgotten that while they're focused on the alligators the intent of the exercise is to drain the swamp".

    WT
    "What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?"... from "Kingdom of Heaven"
    True patriots feel that there is no problem in our Republic that cannot be solved by election, windage and elevation, or superior firepower.

  10. #10
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    Honestly, it is unreasonable to start something like this and expect any results for many years.
    It takes too much time to build membership and financial support.
    Unless the new organization is amazingly appealing to a lot of people very quickly, and results in serious money, it will not reap any benefit.

    The other issue is that we are talking about influencing political issues by influencing political leaders.
    In politics, it is very difficult to mire with the political pigs without getting dirty - it goes with the territory!

    The NRA needs to focus on gun rights, and support 2A issues only.
    Anything else is a waste of time and money..
    Jamie

    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

  11. #11
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    They have been fairly vigilant and now that things have been going 2A way, you want to throw them out with the babies bath water

    Sign up, imho...

    Regards

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    Legislation and important court cases can take years. Over most on those years there was basically one defender of the Second Amendment... the NRA.

    All the other fingers the Association has in other pies is mostly so they'll have pawns to sacrifice to save the king. I firmly believe that minus the NRA most states would have laws much like pre-McDonald Illinois.

    They are the most effective lobbying organization on any issue in the country. We should be thankful they are on our side.
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
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    Harley, I don't mean to throw out the NRA with the baby's bathwater... I'm simply saying that like many organizations, they have started driving in too many directions. Organizational successes bring less need for the organization to push in the same direction, and the anti's are excellent at changing their directions of attack... and responses to attacks aren't always a solution.

    Taking an inititive to push shooting programs and increase the base of shooters in the country will accomplish more than all the political garbage they're involved in currently, and provide a larger voice come election time. Spending all their time dancing with the devil leaves little time to do the "good work" of the organization.

    There are plenty of 2A proponents in congress and the senate, just like there are antis... so let's focus on enlarging the population of shooters and deal with the politicians at the ballot box. There's a whole raft full of people running for re-election this time that need to be sent home, and putting them on the bus out of Washington is the next priority. The mid term elections are in about 90 days... show up and send them home. That's not too complicated, and you don't have to "develop a relationship" with them... just pull the handle and throw them out... then get back to the business of educating people properly on shooting and pushing marksmanship programs.

    WT
    "What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?"... from "Kingdom of Heaven"
    True patriots feel that there is no problem in our Republic that cannot be solved by election, windage and elevation, or superior firepower.

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    Let's see, you, having all the credibility 7 posts earns, want to abandon a 100+ year old, multi-million member organization and replace it with one based on imaginary organizations of which nothing is known because they are highly secretive. What a great idea!

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    Snort!
    Jamie

    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

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    If you truly want to start a new movement. Take a kid hunting, organize a turkey shoot with the turkey(s) barbecued after the shooting stops. If you can't sponsor a competition, write a letter to the editor describing one you have witnessed noting the commitment to competition and training the winner(s) displayed. Find out if a local college ROTC has a drill team and convince your high school to have them perform.

    As my late uncle was fond of saying - it doesn't take a village, just someone that gives a <expletive deleted>.

  17. #17
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    I'm starting to think that a pro-2A organization along the lines of Star Trek's Section 31 or Mass Effect's Cerberus are going to be needed soon. Your thoughts?
    My thoughts are you spend way to much time on the computer in your daddy's basement and need to get outside in the fresh air. You put out a trolling argument with absolutely nothing to back you up except a fictional spook outfit in a fictional TV show that only a few of us would recognize and you got a few people to bite. Tsk, tsk. Shame on you, shame on them. Come back when you have something interesting to post.
    1934 National Firearms Act, 1968 The Gun Control Act, 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act, 1993 Brady Handguns Violence Act, 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, 1995 Gun Free School Zones Act, NO MORE COMPROMISING

  18. #18
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    Take it easy Grump. So he's a trekky. So what? He joined our forum to share and meet new people. A lot of guys your age like cowboy action shooting. I dont . I think its silly to dress up like a cowboy and go galleyvanting around like you wish you were in an episode of Bonanza. I dont usually tell people that b/c apparently they like doing it.

    We have an ignore feature that you can use anytime you need it.

  19. #19
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    I was a trekky before he was born. That isn't my problem, the problem is if he is going to attack the NRA and lord knows they have caused me to write a few letters to them the issue is with the leadership not the whole of the NRA. I happen to know they will respond, I have a letter from Wayne LaPierre proving they read and listen to us. If he had any idea at all, if he knew anything at all if he had any sense at all a quick search would show him a whole list of alternate gun groups but he is going to start his own?????????????

    Don't like the NRA then try these, I am a life member of all of these.

    GOA, JPFO, RTKBA, Open Carry, Wisconsin Carry, WGO. There are others, these are just off the top of my head. He wasn't trying to learn anything, he was trying to stir the waters up with no idea of what he was talking about.

    Oh yeah, a member and life member of the NRA for 40+ years. Have they compromised to much, yeah they headed that way a long time ago. New blood is needed and a return to the original purpose, more matches, more training, more positive ads encouraging marksmanship and not just the knee jerk reaction every time some pipsqueak politician wants his 3 minutes of air time and gets it by attacking gun owners.

    In the meantime name one organization in this entire country who has fought for or taught more about marksmanship and gun safety than the NRA. They are not omnipotent and they cannot be everywhere, their resources like ours are finite. In other words they are human and can only be so many places at the same time, Not every fight can be fought. You don't like it join up and help out.
    1934 National Firearms Act, 1968 The Gun Control Act, 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act, 1993 Brady Handguns Violence Act, 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, 1995 Gun Free School Zones Act, NO MORE COMPROMISING

  20. #20
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    From the original poster's second post (#4)...
    Quote Originally Posted by benjammindeth
    I never said that I was going to abandon the NRA, merely that I don't think they go far enough.

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    I never said that I was going to abandon the NRA, merely that I don't think they go far enough.
    So, in addition to being a member of the NRA just make sure to join GOA or JPFO.
    Lew Wallace was an optimist.

    I want my country back!

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    Maybe I'm old grump 2 or in this case Old Grump Next Generation Why start your own group, when there are others that have done the start up work and have proven themselves?

    Stark Trek policy

  23. #23
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    If he starts a new group or joins an established group, he'll still be doing more than 90% of gun owners - who don't do anything.

  24. #24
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    The shooting 'community' is too fragmented now. There all kinds of groups that need help.
    "...a local college ROTC has a drill team..." Shooting team. Doesn't have to be ROTC either.

  25. #25
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    I think Wayne "I Don't Care" needs to be replaced if nothing else for agreeing with certain people in D.C. that freedom of speech limitations are fine as long as the NRA gets a special pass, that was so wrong, but as a general matter the NRA has done a good job. No organization is perfect and some of the smaller ones are worthwhile as well especially here in dumb a$$ Kalifornia where we need all the help we can get.

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