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Thread: What could this mean for our Second Amendment rights?

  1. #1
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    What could this mean for our Second Amendment rights?

    This seems more than a little Orwellian....what do you guys and gals think?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czoww2l1xdw

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    Just another reason for me to not go to Wal-mart.
    You can have free speech or you can have income taxes but you cannot have both.

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    what was that crap?
    Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.
    -Pericles

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    How is this different from the spying provisions that were in the Patriot act? There must be huge differences between the two or else the same people who fought against the Patriot act would not be supporting this one.

    Is there a list of differences posted anywhere that I can look at? Under the Patriot Act you were supposed to watch for suspicious acts and report them. They were asking ordinary citizens to report on neighbors. To notice things that did not look right. Is this that much different?

    I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. I believe in neighborhood watches. I'm just curious as to the differences in these two policies and wonder what makes this new one so much more palatable to those that thought the first was the end of the free world.

    I am all for citizens actively protecting themselves. I am very suspect of government directing them to do it. The old slippery slope/ camels nose thing.
    I was against the Patriot Act for that reason. It went to far and is to easily abused.

    Michael

  5. #5
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    ^^^

    What Michael said.

    I am still against the Patriot Act and all of that phony 'security crap' while they shred, ignore and burn the Constitution - both political parties and their leaders do this!

    I caught H for being against it way back when and still do.

    This country is in one big MESS - Big Sis and Big Bro need to take a HIKE!

    Catherine
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    PS: You already have people call in and gasp with fear (Fake or real fear!) when they see a 'man with a gun'!

    All of this attention on reporting things that may or may NOT really be a crime or suspicious for the 'common good of the Mother Country or Fatherland' reminds me of the SS during WW2 not counting the Commies reporting on one another in other countries.



    Being a good neighbor is one thing but being a spy is something else. Wait until someone thinks that you may have too many guns, too much ammunition, beans, rice, coffee, soap, fuel for a generator or mower, etc. Oh I forgot! That is already going on in this country when it comes to nosy, anti liberty people who think that THEY know what is good for you, for your community or country. After all, it is for the children, eh?

    Catherine
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    Tovarisch, don't you understand that from many to the few IS collectivism, and your will and desires are not as important as the State? Tsk, tsk, perhaps Siberia will clear your mind of wrong thinking as we re-educate you in the glories of the State and socialism.
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

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    Well having been visited because of my Second Amendment activism,and my use of the First Amendment,I know what big Sis really means when she says "Suspicious behavior", she is talking about someone acting like they have rights,and trying to defend those rights.

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    Maybe next the government will ask school children to watch their parents, and to alert the "authorities" if the parents say something bad about the government, or act suspiciously. It could post a phone number for the children to memorize that would get them connected to the Gestapo, er, I mean the Secret Police, er. I mean the friendly government agents.

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    Maybe next the government will ask school children to watch their parents, and to alert the "authorities" if the parents say something bad about the government, or act suspiciously. It could post a phone number for the children to memorize that would get them connected to the Gestapo, er, I mean the Secret Police, er. I mean the friendly government agents.
    They already do this in some of the schools drug awareness programs.

    Michael

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    This is up in the Mall Of America,and is soon to be expanded to 9,000 Federal buildings nation wide.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stsRf...layer_embedded

    "If you see something...Say Something"

    These are some spooky times we live in friends.

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    I think we need to organize a "national wal-mart reporting day." Could you imagine hundreds of people going into a wal-mart and at regular, short, intervals finding the manager and making reports of suspicious people. A grown man browsing in the children's clothing department must be a pedophile, report him. The plain-clothes loss prevention person suspiciously walking around eyeing people, report him/her. The hunting department cashier who demands ID for rifle ammo, report him/her. Inundate them with reports of suspicious people. Suspicious behavior seems pretty subjective to me. "How dare you accuse me of false reporting. It looked suspicious to me. I'm just doing my civic duty at my governments request." Now imagine this across the country. When the manager blows off reports or only pays lip service, which will be inevitable, that will seem awfully suspicious. We'll have to call the police and report the manager. Ya know what, why limit it to only one day. Let's do it every day for a week, for a month. How long until corporate decides this is a bad policy? How long until big brother decides this is a bad policy with such a low signal to noise ratio?

    Or maybe a boycott is in order. I wonder how wal-mart would like it if nobody bothered shopping there this Christmas season...
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." - Ernest Hemingway

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    An experience I had in a Wal Mart...

    While waiting for my wife, who was perusing the garden and plant area, I walked by the gun and ammo area. Looked into the glass case, and behold! A brick of Winchester T22 Target ammunition, .22 LR with a 40 grain bullet. My target guns eat this stuff up gladly, and I shoot Bullseye.

    The price was right, so I got the attention of the clerk, secured said brick of .22, and paid for it.

    After I paid for it, the clerk took the brick, and said, "I'll walk you to the front door."

    "Wait a minute," I said, "my wife is shopping, and I'd like to look at a few things myself."

    He replied, "Well, this is store policy".

    Of course, I asked, "Why?"

    He said, "Because it prevents someone from loading up a gun, and shooting up the place."

    Well, of course, a little devil started poking me in the rump with the pitchfork. I just had to do it.

    I asked him, "Ever seen one of these?" as I showed him my WA State concealed pistol permit.

    He said, "Well, no." I continued, "This is a permit, issued by the State of Washington, that tells the reader that I can legally carry a concealed handgun on my person."

    He stopped, and started getting a little pale. He asked, "Are you carrying a pistol now?"

    I replied, "Of course. So, why would I want a .22, when I could use the .45 that I have on my person right now?" We were by the front door then. He looked like he was going to give birth to cats and rabbits, right there on the spot. I just had to go on.

    I asked, "Do you know that the State of Washington is a shall issue State? That means, that after submitting the application and passing the background check, any law abiding adult in this State can carry a concealed pistol? Do you also realize that of the people you have here now, that fully half of them--or more--are probably armed?"

    He honestly did not know what to say.

    About that time, my wife showed up with some plants. I told him, "Tell you what. Since it is your store policy, if you hold the ammunition, I'll go pay for my wife's plants, and I'll come back for the ammunition in a minute." I then went to the register and paid for the plants.

    When I returned, he was standing with a gent who was just a little bit older than he was. The guy said to me, "My employee says that you're carrying a pistol." I replied, "Yes, I am."

    He said, "Carrying a pistol is not a safe thing to do in this store." I asked him, "Sir, please make yourself plain. If you are asking me to leave, I will--no problem. But please don't tell me that it's not legal, because the Revised Code of Washington and the US Constitution says that it is. This store is NOT posted as a no-carry area. And please don't tell me that it's Wal Mart policy, because I'm quite sure that it is not. And if you don't want people to carry in your store, I'll be glad to comply--along with everyone I know that carries guns. I'll make sure that I spread the word that this Wal-Mart does not want our business."

    He said, "I'll have to contact my superiors about this." I replied, "You go right ahead. Bye, now.", and walked out of the store. Haven't been back since.
    Hiding in plain sight....

  14. #14
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    I'm shocked that you could encounter morons such as those in a Washington Wal-Mart ... Open carry is seen fairly often in some of the West Sound Wal-Marts (where many of us go for our range ammo) and I've had some good gun discussions with other customers and even the store staff around the ammo counter at my local WMs ...
    Will

    Everything I know about cops, their respect for the citizens of this country and its Constitution, as well as the state of policing in this country ... I learned from the Internet.

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    The only thing Janet forgot was to say:
    Thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart.

    Here it comes folks, just like a tyrannical dictatorship.
    Snitch on your fellow man, all is well, we're from the government and we're here to 'help'...
    I reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks.

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    A woman called her local Wal-mart with questions about the partnership of Wal-mart and DHS...This is how it went.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ2PrSs4SPI

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    And here is a snitch app for IPhone users called the "Patriot App"

    http://www.infowars.com/iphone-snitch-network-launched/

    Just keeps getting better and better doesn't it?

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    [QUOTE][Maybe next the government will ask school children to watch their parents, and to alert the "authorities" if the parents say something bad about the government, or act suspiciously. It could post a phone number for the children to memorize that would get them connected to the Gestapo, er, I mean the Secret Police, er. I mean the friendly government agents./QUOTE]

    Sorry, you are a Day late...or more...

    This is already SOP for Drugs, for suspicious behavior, "alcohol abuse", issues involving Child Protective Services (Ptui), bullying and "sexual promiscuity"

    I REALLY took the local school board to task over that...ESPECIALLY that its an ANONYMOUS reporting number that does not even keep the calling number. The FIRST thing it was used for was to harrass several girls in the high school by the method of calling them in as prostitutes who took payment in drugs....this had CPS and other agencies descending on the poor unknowing parents like a plague of locusts. One mother had a nervous breakdown and one girl left the district and later committed suicide over the allegations and the surrounding furor.

    The perpetrators should be taken out and shot.

    The FAVORITE thing I heard of was someone calling [they put out the recording to "try to identify the abuser"] and saying " I think my neighbor is hiding JEWS" spoken in a stage hissssss....

    I loved it.
    Last edited by AaronE; December 13th, 2010 at 05:15 PM. Reason: spelling
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  19. #19
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    "This seems more than a little Orwellian....what do you guys and gals think?" -Deadmanwalking 05

    Something much different than Orwellian. 1984 was based on Stalinist Russia, and transfered to a English setting. But those systems fictional and real were state tolitarianism.

    In Janet's public service video she clearly states that suspicious people are to be turned into the Walmart Manager. Something very different here insofar as a corporate entity is considered to be equivalent to or part of duties normally taken on by the state.

    So not quite Orwellian, but certainly closer to corporatism. What Janet's public service announcement is happens to be basically a soft facism aided by the assumption that corporate entities are an equal partner. Even one whose main business is selling Chinese trinkets and using geriatrics as underpaid greeters.

    Not an encouraging precedent this...and the snitch app for the phone indicates how pervasive this will become. And obviously most corporations will be happy to comply, either because the Feds are paying them or to avoid restrictions on their business for non-compliance.
    "What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." Adam Smith.

  20. #20
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    "Vee are vatching you, und vee know vhat you're up to..."

    "Vee have vways..."



    WT
    "What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?"... from "Kingdom of Heaven"
    True patriots feel that there is no problem in our Republic that cannot be solved by election, windage and elevation, or superior firepower.

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    Just a note... Wal Mart employees aren't even allowed to chase a shoplifter outside the store, so don't worry about them "handling suspicious people"... I have friends who work there, and they have to stand at the door and watch shoplifters load their cars with stolen merchandise... one manager was even tagged for sending people out to "catch the shoplifter" and they ended up having to help him unload the stolen merchandise into their car...

    Wal Mart managers aren't LEO's... the most they can do is call 911... but so can everybody else in the parking lot if they have a cell phone.

    WT
    "What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?"... from "Kingdom of Heaven"
    True patriots feel that there is no problem in our Republic that cannot be solved by election, windage and elevation, or superior firepower.

  22. #22
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    Wal Mart employees aren't even allowed to chase a shoplifter outside the store
    Not always, that actually totally depends on the store. Some have trained "loss prevention" teams. I witnessed one about a couple years ago pursue and tackle a shoplifter in the parking lot.
    Funny stuff.
    Last edited by kcshooter; December 17th, 2010 at 11:23 AM.
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    I think that my neighbors may be hiding a Jewish family.

    Michael

  24. #24
    I don't see what you guys find so sinister about this video. My first reaction when I saw this video was "It's about damn time". They're not asking anyone to "snitch" on anyone, just to pay attention to their surroundings in a public place and report problems rather than just assuming it's someone else's job. That's pretty similar to the advice I read on this and other gun boards every day and personally I'll take a more aware citizenry over more security guards and police any day. Our government does a lot of shady things but encouraging citizens to take a little more responsibility for their own safety is a good thing IMHO. Now maybe if they'd encourage people to stash a bit of food/water/medicine, take a first aid class, and learn to use a firearm etc they'd be on to something. If the terrorists ever get serious and start attacking easier targets such as malls, schools, poisoning water supplies, taking out power lines, digging up oil/gas pipelines etc the average citizen is going to be our first line of defence and the sooner people realise that the better.

  25. #25
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    nazshooter, have you read 1984, did you watch the video? It is very spooky.

    There is a difference between criminal behavior and suspicious behavior. As noted above what if a shopper thinks an older man in the infant/children's clothes department is a pedophile, when it's an uncle buying clothes for his newborn niece?

    Or me buying 5 boxes of .45 ammo, and a fellow shopper thinking I am going on a murder spree?

    This will not help in "Homeland Security"(very Statist sounding name is it not?), and it may only be a matter of time before "perks" are given to those who make frequent "reports".

    Ask any active duty person about their opinion of Homeland Security, you may be shocked by the answer.

    (Hint: over-reaching, ineffective, unconstitutional, and incompetent come to mind)

    Remember Janet said" The system worked" when talking about the underwear bomber, but if the system worked how was on the plane in the first place?
    When the going gets tough the tough get cyclic!
    "The Constitution is a restraining order against the federal government. I'm not going to say a word about the effectiveness of restraining orders against criminals." Standing Wolf

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