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Thread: Hitech ammo gripe

  1. #1
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    Hitech ammo gripe

    All,

    A couple months ago, I ordered 500 new 55 gr fmj from http://hi-techammo.com/, for the most part they have worked pretty well for plinkying rounds. Today I was loading up some more, and one of the projectiles didnt feel quit right in my hand. As you can see in the figure below, one of the bullets is significantly longer than the others.

    The offending bullet is still the 22 cal, but its 63 gr and about 0.9" long while the nominal bullets are 22 cal, 55 gr, and about 0.75" long. Also, the picture kind of makes them look like they are different diameters, but they arn't. Its an illusion because they aren't in a perfectly straight line.

    Any way,does this happen often? What would have happened if I would have loaded this long guy?

    Thanks,
    Brad
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    It looks like HiTech sells a 62 grain FMJBT round. I'd guess you just got a stray round that was stuck in a tray or chute somewhere.

    As for what would happen that largely depends on what load you were using. Check your load book, does the amount and type of the powder you use for 55 grain bullets fall in a safe range for 62 grain rounds?

  3. #3
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    is that the normal length of the 62gr bullets? It seems really long.. I have also committed the cardinal sin of not having a load book. I usually just go from whats on the powder manufacturers website.

  4. #4
    Well what powder are you using?

    What does the mfgr say you should use for a 55 grain and 62 grain bullet? Doesn't matter if it comes from a book or a website as long as you trust your source and don't do anything foolish!

    Just looking at pictures it seems that the 62 grain bullets are longer than the 55 grain bullets, but I'll defer to the other experts around here.

  5. #5
    I'm looking at my 2nd Edition Lee book and the charges for 55 grain bullets are MORE than those for 62 grain bullets. There is some overlap but it's quite small. With one powder in particular the start load for 55 grains is OVER the MAX for 62 grain bullets.

  6. #6
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    I'm using 22 gr of reloader 7 right now (not the best powder/load for this bullet,i know), but I am switching to Ramshot TAC as soon as the RL7 runs out.

  7. #7
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    Well if they are all .224 diameter then more gr weight would mean more lead and copper. Since they have to stay the same diameter the extra material has to go somewhere since it cant go to the circumfrence. Even the heavier bullets have to be seated to an acceptable OAL for the bullet to fit into a magazine. The amount of powder being used would more than likely be at an acceptable level for a heavier bullets minimum velocity.

    The only thing bad that I can see happening would be that the bullet in question would probably shoot lower at the range you were plinking at. Causing you to think WTF?
    Brandon

    Take a kid shooting. They are the future.

  8. #8
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    I would consider buying a good manual. There is a lot more info in them than just load data. Most manuals have some pretty informative tricks of the trade in them as well.
    Brandon

    Take a kid shooting. They are the future.

  9. #9
    The only thing bad that I can see happening would be that the bullet in question would probably shoot lower at the range you were plinking at. Causing you to think WTF?
    Bruno. I disagree with that. Longer heavier rounds are going to increase pressures. I think theres a lot more that can go wrong than a lousy group.

  10. #10
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    Freiheit is correct. A lot more can go wrong.

    Tollerances in firearms are tricky things. .001" is a big number in such precise machines. Firing above maximum loads as indicated by my manuals shown below could be bad ju-ju. Pull the bullet. Components are cheap. Guns, fingers, eyes and other parts of the anatomy are not.
    Adding the additional mass and bearing surface on the longer bullet could easily make pressures skyrocket. Add to that thought that your photo shows a considerably longer COAL. Will it chamber without jamming into the lands? (Another no-no that can send pressures sky high.)

    According to my Sierra #5 for the .223 Rem., Minimum charge of RE-7 with 55 gn FMJ is 20.1 gn and Max. load is 21.5.
    With 63 gn projectile, 19.3 Min. and 21.5 max.

    Nosler # 6 and Speer #14 do not list Reloader #7 for 55 0r 62 gn bullets. Speer does list R-7 for a 52 gn bullet as 18.5 min. and 20.5 max. Ken Waters' book only lists loads for bullets from 40 gn to 52 gn for Reloader 7. 50 gn Sierra at 23.5 is called out as Maximum. Realize that Waters used a bolt action for his testing and maximum loads stretched the case .001" at the pressure ring. He also shows 1 55gn bullet load with a 23gn charge of R-7 with "normal" case expansion and "insufficient accuracy".

    From what I can get from my manuals, I would advise against firing that 62 gn bullet with that charge of Reloader 7.

    JMHO,

    Zip
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  11. #11
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    Your 22grn RL-7 load would have been .5grns over max according to my books. Nobody would ever advise shooting one of those. But....it PROBABLY would not be catastrophic disassembly time. Likely just a swelled head and primer pocket with the possibility of the primer blowing out. AR's take things like this pretty much in stride...most of the time. As you noted, RL-7 is on the very fast side of the powder spectrum so a half-grain makes a LOT more difference than if you were using a slower powder. An over-load is always not good, but faster powders spike higher sooner so you need to be even more diligent when using them.

    You did good to notice the heavier projo and not load it. Hitech runs millions of bullets through their place yearly so I'd not slam them too hard for giving you the odd-ball. They are probably machine sorted and that one slipped through.

    One of the great things about hand-loading is that WE are the final inspector and can make sure everything is correct in our ammo....which you did. Well done.

  12. #12
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    One of the great things about hand-loading is that WE are the final inspector and can make sure everything is correct in our ammo....which you did. Well done.
    Absolutely. Well said, Rob.

    it PROBABLY would not be catastrophic disassembly time.
    IMHO, the "risk-reward" ratio isn't worth it. Any time you are at or near maximum bad things can happen. Even though this is only 0.5gn overload, in such a small case with such a fast burning powder, that .5 gn becomes more significant. In a .300 Win. Mag., 0.5gn overload I would probably not be concerned.

    I would pull the round apart and reuse the components.

    Zip
    "Few of the great tragedies of history were created by the village idiot, and many by the village genius." Thomas Sowell
    "Sometimes absurdity is worth it for its own sake." Andrew Breitbart
    "Reality is not optional." Thomas Sowell

  13. #13
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    IIRC, the 55gr bullets I purchased from Hi-Tech were/are lead core. The 62gr bullets purchased from them and currently on my bench are steel core. Steel is not as dense as lead and takes more volume to achieve a desired weight. The steel core bullet would naturally be longer for a given weight.

    When dealing in bulk quantities of surplus/pulled/resized/seconds/floor sweepings ect. it is recommended to inspect your projectiles carefully.

    I love buying factory seconds at the Sierra factory. The bullets are scooped out of a steel drum. It is easy to see how a stray might end up in the wrong drum. Bargain purchases require a little extra scrutiny on the end users part.
    Last edited by Mule; December 31st, 2010 at 12:11 AM.
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    Always Point Your Muzzle In A Safe Direction!

  14. #14
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    Mule

    Mule, you are 100% correct.

    Many of our fine brothers on this Forum are less knowledgeable, perhaps they wouldn't even stop to consider a steel core 62 grain FMJ for 5.56x45.

    That's the 62 grain bullet currently used by US Military (and also listed as a NATO round).




    I bought a box of 100 blemished bullets from MidwayUSA this summer.
    They are 30 caliber -- .308" 155 Grain Polymer Tip.
    There was one .224" Nosler BT in the box! Ha!



    Excellent work, bgood44. Good eyes.
    No, it wouldn't be the end of the world if you loaded it and shot it.
    But you do want to avoid it.
    Yes, you did well by identifying it and taking it out of the bunch.

  15. #15
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    Zip said: Add to that thought that your photo shows a considerably longer COAL. Will it chamber without jamming into the lands?
    Hi, Zip.

    Don't forget that the seating die determines the cartridge OAL. As you know, the seater stem pushes down on the shoulder of the bullet just below the tip. It would result in the same cartridge overall length for all rounds, regardless of the length of the bullet, with variation of a couple thousandths of an inch only because the very tip of the nose may be a bit shorter or longer (yes, heavier bullets sometimes have a shorter tip on the nose, it depends entirely upon the profile of the bullet shoulder). Obviously, there would simply be more bullet down in the case if a longer bullet is seated by the same seating die.

  16. #16
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    Well if they are all .224 diameter then more gr weight would mean more lead and copper. Since they have to stay the same diameter the extra material has to go somewhere since it cant go to the circumfrence. Even the heavier bullets have to be seated to an acceptable OAL for the bullet to fit into a magazine. The amount of powder being used would more than likely be at an acceptable level for a heavier bullets minimum velocity.

    The only thing bad that I can see happening would be that the bullet in question would probably shoot lower at the range you were plinking at. Causing you to think WTF?
    Bruno you got that BassAckwards. The heavier bullet requires LESS powder. It could result in a catastrophic failure.

  17. #17
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    Bottom line (and disclaimer: I know the guys at HiTech)...

    If you're going to load using surplus components, powder, etc., etc., then you REALLY need to know what you are doing, and pay attention to what you are doing. You'll find the occasional surprise in surplus...
    Resume available upon request.
    Have good references.
    Can pass any number of drug screens.

  18. #18
    Even the heavier bullets have to be seated to an acceptable OAL for the bullet to fit into a magazine. The amount of powder being used would more than likely be at an acceptable level for a heavier bullets minimum velocity. | Concrete Pumping Bakersfield

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    Hope it will be effective for all. All the facts are discussed in a very easy and also understandable process.
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