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Thread: What powder to try next? .45 ACP out of a short barrel?

  1. #1

    What powder to try next? .45 ACP out of a short barrel?

    Settled into a groove with my .45 ACP reloading, I've loaded at least 1000 rounds and sent them down range and have another 300 rounds on the shelf. I'm almost out of my first can of Win 231 and I'd like to try a new powder.

    I'm loading .45 ACP, Winchester Small Pistol primers, Magnus 230 grain FMJ, mixed brass and shooting it out of a Taurus PT-145 with a 3.25" barrel.

    I've found that 4.9 grains of Win231 fires and functions well. I can get 2" groups out of the gun if I do my job. Theres really no reason to experiment other than just because I can.

    I don't have a chronograph (yet) so I'm watching for pressure signs in the brass. I shoot about 400 rounds a month through this gun so I know what feels normal too.

    What powder should I try next?

  2. #2
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    aa#2? N320?

  3. #3
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    generally speaking a faster powder does well in shorter barrels.
    maybe BullsEye? it's about the cheapest per shot. or Red Dot.

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    Without a doubt, AA#2. cheap, meters awesome, cheap, makes good accurate loads, and its cheap. Did I mention that its cost effective?

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    I like AA#5.
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    I'd load up some Red Dot for sure. And maybe some Tightgroup.

    jim
    Commom sense isn't very common anymore.

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    for my short barrel 45 guns, it's Titegroup. Burns fast and clean. Stays accurate.
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
    --George Washington

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    Most of us find that short barrels do not do 'better' with faster powders.
    Unfortunately we all got sold that myth decades ago.
    Longer barrels gain about 50 fps over shortie barrels,
    but that velocity differential is just about the same for nearly every powder.
    No real advantage to fast powder in short barrel. (Pistol or rifle)
    With experience and time, you'll demonstrate that to yourself.

    Fast vs. slow powders (and light vs. heavy bullets) do change the recoil signature.
    That can be an excellent area of discovery for you.
    Figure out the combination that suits your shooting style the best.

    You already have one great powder, Win 231/ HP-38 (same thing).

    Do some searching and find known accuracy loads for lead 230g in 45acp.
    Then get those powders.

    Here are a few of mine to start with.
    Clays 3.6g (mid range load)
    VV N310 3.6g (also mid range)
    Titegroup 4.1g (rather soft load)
    Unique 6.7g (very strong load, work up slowly)
    The first four are at 1.250" oal.
    The Unique load is 1.270" or whatever the longest fits your magazine.

    Go do a search and see what you can find.

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    After experimenting with several slower powers (Green Dot, Unique, Blue Dot, and a number of ball powders), I finally settled on good old Bullseye for 200-230 grain jacketed bullet loads in the .45ACP for pistol use...

    Forrest

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    Any particular reason why you are using small pistol primers in .45 ACP?!? I use Titegroup in my PT-145 - with LARGE pistol primers, though.

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    Navy,
    There seem to be a growing number of brass punchers that are making 45 acp with small primers. My son and I do range cleaning as a sideline, and have recovered thousands of Blazer brass 45 cases with small primers. I have loaded several thousand of them now. They shoot just fine.
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
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    Well I'll be dang....learn something new every day....guess I should have googled it first!

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    Right now I am carrying a 45acp with 3.12" barrel and I am using Power Pistol.

    I am getting 1225- 1250 fps over the chrono with 152 gr wad cutters.
    The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
    "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books.
    If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view.
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  14. #14
    Any particular reason why you are using small pistol primers in .45 ACP?!? I use Titegroup in my PT-145 - with LARGE pistol primers, though.
    Egads! That was a typo! I use large pistol primers.

    Clark - 1200+ out of a 3.25" barrels is cooking pretty fast! Is that more from the powder or the light bullets?

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    That's fast, Clark! 357 Magnum peformance.

    Where do you get the bullets (or bullet mold)?

    Using standard 45acp brass, or 45 Super brass?

    Thanks for the info.

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    Note on SP small pistol primers in 45acp

    SP primer pockets also found in certain brass from Speer, Federal, Win NT, Fiocchi, and some CCI Blazer Brass.

    Be sure to separate from standard brass before you run it through your priming station.

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    I got a supply of 152 gr cast .452" bullets from National Bullet, before they went base up.

    I think Penn still makes that bullet:
    http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html
    The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
    "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books.
    If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view.
    The Mercer Island school district buys history books with liberal spin on more paragraphs than not.
    Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

  18. #18

    sp primers?

    I have only loaded a few hundred thousand 45acp rounds, but I have never seen 1 that took a small pistol primer. must be something new. Most blazer ammo is berdan primed and NOT recommended for reloading. Normally I use Unique for most range loads. Blue Dot works well for more performance oriented rounds. Bullyseye just seems to burn kind of dirty but its ok for short lead bullet range loads. I will stick with LP and LPMag primers, thats a big case to light.

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    Most blazer ammo is berdan primed and NOT recommended for reloading.
    That's a new one on me. My son and I clean gun ranges, and out of the hundreds of thousands of Blazer 45acp brass we have gathered, I have never seen one that was Berdan primed. Guess there's something new all the time.

    I do sort out the small pistol primed 45acp brass and run it separately, as I use a progressive press(s). The stuff shoots just like the large primer stuff, no issues at all.

    Take a look at the two cartridges below, the BLAZER is boxer primed small pistol primer. I have some that has been reloaded 15 or 20 times, and has held up just fine shooting .452 home cast lead.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
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    thats a big case to light.
    yup, usually lots of room in it. I have had very good luck with HP-38 and Titegroup both in it.
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
    --George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by hard hat diver
    I have only loaded a few hundred thousand 45acp rounds, but I have never seen 1 that took a small pistol primer. must be something new. Most blazer ammo is berdan primed and NOT recommended for reloading.
    Quote Originally Posted by Griz44
    That's a new one on me. My son and I clean gun ranges, and out of the hundreds of thousands of Blazer 45acp brass we have gathered, I have never seen one that was Berdan primed.
    Blazer aluminum is Berdan primed. All of the Blazer Brass I have ever seen is Boxer primed. I also have never seen a .45 Auto with a SP primer, but they obviously exist!

    I load titegroup in my .45 Auto.

    Aluminum cased Blazer with Berdan Primers:
    http://www.blazer-ammo.com/clean_fire.aspx

    Blazer brass with boxer primers:
    http://www.blazer-ammo.com/blazer_brass.aspx

  22. #22
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    Blazer aluminum is Berdan primed.
    That clears that up. I know some folks who do reload aluminum and steel, but I have never tried it. The Blazer BRASS seems to all be boxer and reloads just fine.
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
    --George Washington

  23. #23
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    Blazer aluminum cases: Both Berdan AND Boxer are available.

    Yes, Blazer makes aluminum cases with boxer primers.
    Quite a few different calibers and cartridges.
    Keep a keen eye and look into some of them.
    Those with one flash hole, take them home and decap to see for yourself.


    CAUTION:
    Aluminum is reloadable, but it uses different load data!
    It has less case capacity (the base is thicker) and it releases the bullet sooner, so load data must be specific to aluminum. Since no one publishes aluminum case load data, you would be foolish to use published brass data thinking you are smart and safe. You're neither.


    Differences between aluminum and brass cartridge cases:
    -Aluminum has different case capacity. And since it's not meant for hobby reloading, manufacturing variance is considerable.
    -Different spring-back in the resizing cycle, resizing dies are dimensioned to let brass spring back to the correct size, but aluminun doesn't spring back the same.
    -Base web expands approximately twice as much as brass, so the primer pocket gets dangerously loose after only 3 or 4 loadings.
    -Erodes more quickly in common tumbling media (corn cob and/or walnut).
    -Higher coefficient of sliding friction against steel requires more effort in unlubricated sizing die, even carbide die.

    Similar differences are found in steel cartridge cases.

    You can reload aluminum and steel, but you probably really don't know what you're doing. Good luck.

  24. #24
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    Another tidbit of info on the aluminum cases, they have a coating that controls/allows extraction movement and can cause problems in blow-back operated guns. Once you tumble them they might not work properly in your blow-backer...if they did before as some guns refuse to run right with them. They also can malfunction if dirty or worn from handling. Same sort of thing applies to the 5.7x28 FN rounds. They aren't aluminum, but are specially coated and it is best to be gentle and understand what is going on if attempting to reload them.

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