Democratic Underground

[Crimefree]

It takes less than 10 minutes to write a letter to the media. If published it will be seen by many tens of thousand. Every one will be read by the media staff. Every letter will count in forming an opinion of who or what that publication reaches and what readers WANT.

There is absolutely no doubt that public education works. Gun control spends all it money on public education. Everything gun control does is for public education. No government can ignore what the public demand. If that demand is the majority then no government chooses to commit suicide. Make damn sure your freedom and safety is secure and your rights are not considered anti-social by the majority.

How are firearm owners and organisations doing so far? Which firearm organisation looks after the public image of firearm owners? Which firearm organisation and which firearm owners will counter any slur or attack on their image?

Nobody will do a thing if they will not receive a benefit or they see no point. What is he point of doing anything to save the guns, to promote the guns, to sell the guns?

First you have to value your rights. Those rights are not divisible.
You cannot equate guns to rights. You cannot put your effort into saving the guns when you rights ensure you have the right to ownership. You are exchanging freedom for security.

We have to use our most powerful weapon our brain and examine, determine a strategy plan and execute. What is our plan now? What is our strategy but most importantly what is our goal?

[Crimefree]

bruno...It's been said...If, by the age of 30, you've found a politician that you believe and trust...you haven't been paying attention.

Apparently, you've been paying attention.

"Those who aspire to positions of power are the very ones who shouldn't be trusted with it."

"They mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters...but they mean to be masters."

More true words have to be spoken yet fools and idiots think government is the master. They beg for favours and refuse to anger the master. what they think the purpose of the constitution and all the deliberation on it was for defies imagination.

The constitution merely affirms the right. It does not protect the right. That is citizens responsibility clearly demonstrated by inclusion of the 2nd amendment. Nobody even wants to think about that as it it now the responsibility of government and lawyers. Not me find somebody else....

The ONLY CURRENCY of ANY government is POWER. The only thing any government respects is power. The only lever anyone ever has with a politician is power. If you cannot deliver or subtract power you are wasting your time. Yet the liberalist socialist idiots think government will listen if they ask nicely but cannot find any example to show the validity.

Trade unions know only to well if you have no power you cannot negotiate, you can only beg. That is what firearm organisations do, beg or surrender. They have no power as members will not stand up and demand their rights. They would rather argue over what gun control to accept.

[Treo]

I've noticed the people that partcipate in DU tend to be more authoritarian and that the same debate just keepsd going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going.

Some of them might as well just cut and paste their responses

[Crimefree]

People have tried countering some of the garbage over there, but are summarily banned and posts removed for simply expressing their opinion. DU ain't for me.

Hmm!! Then the obvious conclusion is they are doing something WRONG. It is more then likely personal remarks instead of sound valid provable comment. How close am I to the truth? How much longer will we keep making the same basic mistakes and giving up becasue we are provably to stupid to figure it out.

[Crimefree]

I've noticed the people that partcipate in DU tend to be more authoritarian and that the same debate just keepsd going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going.

Some of them might as well just cut and paste their responses

You are dealing with people who are AFRAID and BELIEVE you and your guns are a danger to them. What is so difficult to understand or observe?

It requires a psychologically sound approach and confrontation or screaming about MORE GUNS or GOOD GUNS is exactly the WRONG approach. You have to find common ground.

Would you take a person who fears snakes to a snake petting zoo to help them? Would you suggest that they buy a dozen and let them loose in the garden?

The common ground is safety, security, freedom which are a basic human right. Note not the constitution, a law or a gift from government, a basic human right protected by CITIZENS who do nor sell it out to keep a gun if they so desire with government permission, oversight or conditions.

The best advice is do like gun control do. Use social psychologists to guide your attack. Smart fools (blind idiots) who don't have a clue guiding your fight are not going to win a propaganda war. And in case you have not noticed it is a propaganda war.

[erictank]

{in response to ArmoredMan's post about DU} Hmm!! Then the obvious conclusion is they are doing something WRONG. It is more then likely personal remarks instead of sound valid provable comment. How close am I to the truth? How much longer will we keep making the same basic mistakes and giving up becasue we are provably to stupid to figure it out.

You're about as far as you can get from the truth, actually.

I've observed it personally, over YEARS of lurking at DU before they changed to their new format recently (I found it less usable, and haven't been back for months). Those adhering to "progressive" beliefs get to say LITERALLY whatever they want, regardless of compliance (or, really, lack of same) with board Terms Of Service, while those daring to advocate for safe responsible firearms ownership and use (on the Guns board, naturally) had better walk the straight and narrow if they don't want their comments removed. Those who actually let slip that they DON'T adhere to "progressive" beliefs are summarily banned for same, as are "repeat offenders" on the Guns board who actually believe that ordinary citizens actually have the RKBA and that the Second Amendment actually protects that RKBA.

Iverglas in particular is one of the worst (actual) offenders. As an avowedly-"progressive" Canadian, she is *VEHEMENTLY* opposed to U.S. RKBA, and will libel U.S. firearms owners relentlessly - and personally - with virtually every post she makes, assigning collective responsibility for every weapons-related offense committed by any criminal to each and every single U.S. firearms owner. I understand that not too long ago, she actually got WARNED for making comments in violation of TOS; she'd been making such comments since long before I first visited the board. Pro-RKBA commenters noted that they'd had comments removed for first offenses, and several had commented that they'd had accounts banned previously for daring to not kowtow to the standard "progressive" position on RKBA. This is *NOT* an isolated incident - not only is it a common pattern of behavior, but others there act that way as well (Hoyt is another frequent consequence-free abuser of TOS against pro-RKBA posters).

If you haven't seen that with your own eyes, then you aren't really looking at all. You're not seeing the blatant acts that are practically slapping you across the face with a 2x4 whenever you open any given thread on that board. DU is hostile territory, where firearms-owners and those who support RKBA are considered guilty, period, no proving of innocence, by those who run the show there. Those who have the "proper" attitude can get away with whatever behavior they want, while those with "improper" attitudes have posts removed and get banned for the most minor of offenses, if they actually commit any offenses against TOS at all.

[Treo]

You are dealing with people who are AFRAID and BELIEVE you and your guns are a danger to them. What is so difficult to understand or observe?

I was actually talking about people that are considered radical PROgun rights militants over there

[oneshooter]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/124097558

They finally got her gone. Much rejoicing.

Oneshooter

[Treo]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/124097558

They finally got her gone. Much rejoicing.

Oneshooter

Ding Dong the witch is dead !!!!!!!!!!!!

I almost wish I didn't have a granite pizza so I could go rejoice

What did she get banned for?

[pmeisel]

Can't seem to get to the thread without logging in, which I choose not to do. Anything noteworthy?

And, Treo, what is a granite pizza?

[erictank]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/124097558

They finally got her gone. Much rejoicing.

Oneshooter

Holy... cow! (For lack of a better, TOS-friendly phrase)

[Monty Python] "And there was much rejoicing."[/Monty Python]

I can't see it either - guess they got tired of all of us lurkers without accounts spreading the truth about things there.

[oneshooter]

May 22, 2012

More hidden posts than any other DU member, a position she held consistently for weeks (also a position she held regularly on DU2). Numerous attempts to drive a wedge between LGBT DUers and Feminists. Did not seem to like LGBT DUers very much; defended transphobia on a number of occasions. Tried to bypass being blocked out of threads by repeatedly editing her remaining posts. Tried to bully potential Jurors into leaving her disruptive posts alone by repeatedly posting rude callouts of Jurors in the Help & Meta-discussion forum. Was a constant fixture in flame wars in that forum. Repeated attempts to badger the Admins into banning people via the alert function. Constantly surly and rude, iverglas had become pretty much the epitome of "making DU suck." She received an enormous amount of feedback from other DUers indicating that she was disruptive and divisive and was given ample opportunity to modify her approach, but instead chose to believe that the problem was everybody else on DU.
For more information see Terms of Service

Skinner
(Administrator)


Oneshooter

[Treo]

And, Treo, what is a granite pizza?

when you get banned on DU they put a Tombstone on your profile. AKA the granite pizza

[pmeisel]

Thanks..... I am curious, but not curious enough to invest much time over there. We have enough problems of our own.

[Treo]

An explanation may be in order, for those who are unfamiliar with her.

Iverglas is a sexually repressed, pot smoking, man hating lesbian from Canada. A former Lawyer who was disbarred for sexual misconduct, she absolutely despises Oleg, America, guns, white people, kittens, puppies, small children and anyone who doesn’t subscribe to her radical collectivist world view.

Although she purported to be a progressive Iverglas was banned from DU earlier this month for her egregious, homophobia and misogynic ranting.

[davec]

She was disbarred? When did that all come out?

[Treo]

She was disbarred? When did that all come out?

A couple weeks back. Apparently she was trolling the LGBT and feminism forums pretty hard and they decided it was time for a pizza party

[PavePusher]

I'll admit it... I danced like I had ants in my pants.

She was one vile piece of work.

A couple weeks back. Apparently she was trolling the LGBT and feminism forums pretty hard and they decided it was time for a pizza party

[Johnny Dollar]

An explanation may be in order, for those who are unfamiliar with her.

Iverglas is a sexually repressed, pot smoking, man hating lesbian from Canada. A former Lawyer who was disbarred for sexual misconduct, she absolutely despises Oleg, America, guns, white people, kittens, puppies, small children and anyone who doesn’t subscribe to her radical collectivist world view.

Although she purported to be a progressive Iverglas was banned from DU earlier this month for her egregious, homophobia and misogynic ranting.

A great review! And to think I missed all that!

[Treo]

One thing I have noticed about DU, the majority of posters there assume that anyone who is pro RKBA is a right wing troll and every so often they go through and sumarily ban the most vocal second amendment supporters.

[PavePusher]

One thing I have noticed about DU, the majority of posters there assume that anyone who is pro RKBA is a right wing troll and every so often they go through and sumarily ban the most vocal second amendment supporters.

I'm still there... Muuuuaaaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah!!!!!

[bellyfat]

how much lead would you have to put on an airliner flying at an unknown speed at an unknown altitude at an unknown distance with an unknown windage?....unknown

[erictank]

how much lead would you have to put on an airliner flying at an unknown speed at an unknown altitude at an unknown distance with an unknown windage?....unknown

The answer? "Guided missile".

Seriously, no mere shoulder-arm personal rifle has a ghost of a prayer of hitting, let alone downing, an airliner not engaging in low-speed, low-altitude, low-margin-for-error maneuvers like takeoff and landing.

The notion that a clown with a Barrett can pick off a 757 at 30K+/550 knots groundspeed is pure BS. They PROBABLY couldn't down one during takeoff, shooting straight down the end of the runway (how far out do they have to shoot from, again? A 1600-yard+ shot is a REAL challenge to any practiced shooter).

[Selena]

The answer? "Guided missile".

Seriously, no mere shoulder-arm personal rifle has a ghost of a prayer of hitting, let alone downing, an airliner not engaging in low-speed, low-altitude, low-margin-for-error maneuvers like takeoff and landing.

The notion that a clown with a Barrett can pick off a 757 at 30K+/550 knots groundspeed is pure BS. They PROBABLY couldn't down one during takeoff, shooting straight down the end of the runway (how far out do they have to shoot from, again? A 1600-yard+ shot is a REAL challenge to any practiced shooter).

But what if it's true??????????? You guys will gladly put the children in danger just to keep your stupid guns!

(I gotta stop this tongue in cheek stuff, I just hurt my jaw.)

[erictank]

But what if it's true??????????? You guys will gladly put the children in danger just to keep your stupid guns!

(I gotta stop this tongue in cheek stuff, I just hurt my jaw.)

And the sad thing is, your tongue-in-cheek snark is *PRECISELY* the answer many victim-disarmament types regard as the correct response. They're SERIOUS about that crap.