Border agents required to shoot bean bags first, agent killed because of it.

[JellyJar]

I hope this is the correct area for this thread, if not please move it.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...7d70b8a31.html

According to the above report, on the night that Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered, after contacting a group of armed illegals they were required to use non lethal force first even though they could see that two of the illegals were armed with AK47s!

Don't know who fired the bean bag shots first but in the shootout Brian Terry was killed.

Apparently Border Patrol Agents are now required to use non lethal force first before using firearms even if they know their opponents are armed!

[Totez]

Unfortunately as far as I know it has been this way for a while.

Trying to use non-lethal force against obviously armed career criminals is poor judgement but the same nutjobs that try and say our border is secure try and push their bambie philosophy of shoot-to-play beanbag toss.

[Totez]

Deleted because of double post.

[armoredman]

Not to mention the rifle that was used to kill Agent Terry was allowed to over the border illegally by ATFE in the infamous GunWalker story.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Napolitano needs to resign. But only after she rescinds that outrageously ridiculous rule of engagement. Like most of the Obama administration, she is in so far over her head that she doesn't know which way is up. I didn't expect much better from an executive branch full of noobs, but I was hoping no one would die from it. I guess that is wishful thinking.

[Jamie B]

Napolitano needs to resign.

No need for that - just send her in to the nastiest part of Mexico with a target on her back and a beanbag.

Just my wistful thinking.....

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Well, it looks like the moron-in-chief wants more Border Agents to die.

The president's statement answers speculation about how far the administration would go in reforming safety measures in response to the killing three weeks ago of Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent Jaime Zapata in Mexico. The shooting death raised questions in the U.S. about Mexico's ability to control violence but U.S. officials earlier wouldn't say whether Obama would press the Mexican leader to allow U.S. agents to be armed.

[Totez]

Wait a second.... Why are we asking Mexico permission to have our borders secured by armed personnel?

[mlr1m]

Wait a second.... Why are we asking Mexico permission to have our borders secured by armed personnel?

We only need permission if the agents are operating on Mexican soil. The same applies if their agents were to come here.

Michael

[Carl N. Brown]

Then the question on the previous issue is ¿are foreign police on business on American soil allowed to go armed? US Agent Zapata working with the Mexican police should have been armed in my not so humble opinion. If a police agent working in a foreign country cannot be trusted armed facing armed criminals, he should not be there period.

On the border patrol issue, the signs around Area 51 say deadly force is authorized against American citizens trespassing on a US government reservation, but foreign nationals can intrude on US soil armed with deadly weapons and our border patrol must play nice games with bean bag rounds.

If US nationals went into Mexico armed with AKs and engaged Mexican border security, what would be the ROE?

[Selena]

Where is General Pershing now that we so desperately need him? It says much of our current attitude that a 'peacenik' like Woodrow Wilson would order troops against foreign criminal elements for killing civilians on foreign soil yet a modern president won't allow border patrol personnel to use deadly force against criminal invasion on our own soil.

Too bad the presidential oath doesn't include 'defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic.'

[JellyJar]

http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2011/0...s-with-ak-47s/

Says that murdered agent Brian Terry was armed only with bean bags!!

[Jamie B]

Says that murdered agent Brian Terry was armed only with bean bags!!

Hence, my previous post.

[StormTalyn]

I say arm the Secret Service with ONLY beanbags and then have Obama hold a press conference making sure to notify everyone that he's so against violence that he trusts his secret service detail to carry only less-lethal ammunition.

We'd see what happens pretty quickly... We'd have an executive branch changing some policies pretty quickly.

[BikerRN]

It's been this bad even before the Obamessiah.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't care for Obama and his administration, but the vapidness of the Beltway Bureaucrats is truly astounding. I left the feds because of it.

If we don't start using some common sense, which isn't all that common, we are doomed.

BikerRN

[Jamie B]

I say arm the Secret Service with ONLY beanbags and then have Obama hold a press conference making sure to notify everyone that he's so against violence that he trusts his secret service detail to carry only less-lethal ammunition.

Snort! Works for me!

[mlr1m]

On the night of the deadly encounter, agents were trying to apprehend at least five suspected illegal immigrants. One agent, using thermal binoculars, spotted two men carrying rifles. When the group came close, at least one agent identified himself as police and ordered the men to drop their weapons.

Here's how the rest of the events are described in the FBI document:

"When the suspected aliens did not drop their weapons, two Border Patrol agents deployed 'less than lethal' beanbags at the suspected aliens. At this time, at least one of the suspected aliens fired at the Border Patrol agents. Two Border Patrol agents returned fire, one with his long gun and one with his pistol.

What kind of training tells agents to use non-lethal weapons on suspects armed with rifles? I could understand if it was unknown they were armed but that does not seem to be the case here.

Michael

[Carl N. Brown]

The problem is our border patrol are forced to treat armed drug cartel gun thugs like they were just migrant farmer workers sneaking into the country.

Armed suspected illegal immigrants? Or armed illegal drug/drug smugglers? Unemployed starving migrant farm workers don't carry AK47s. Coyotes don't want to be caught with weapons either (they want catch and release).

[Rev. DeadCorpse]

What kind of training tells agents to use non-lethal weapons on suspects armed with rifles? I could understand if it was unknown they were armed but that does not seem to be the case here.

Yeah... You'd think being trained to follow the ROI would end when that first round goes whizzing past.

Our borders have been a joke for over 20 years now. Way past due time someone was hung out to dry for this and real border protections put in place. Federal military, civilian militia, local police forces... Whatever it takes.

Come here legally, and be welcome, or don't come at all.

[zxcvbob]

The problem is our border patrol are forced to treat armed drug cartel gun thugs like they were just migrant farmer workers sneaking into the country.

Armed suspected illegal immigrants? Or armed illegal drug/drug smugglers? Unemployed starving migrant farm workers don't carry AK47s. Coyotes don't want to be caught with weapons either (they want catch and release).

The administration doesn't want the BP killing any potential Democrats sneaking across the border. If a few agents die because of the policy, that's a small price to pay.

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...ian-terry.html

Brian Terry was a member of National Border Patrol Council's Local 2544 in Tucson. Leaders could not be reached, but postings on the union website criticize the Border Patrol for "an extremely poor job of getting information out (about the Terry slaying), which leads to all kinds of speculation."

Postings by union officials also attempt to debunk several blog reports, including suggestions that agents in the shootout "were armed only with 'bean bag' rounds and 'rubber bullets.' These reports are not true. Without commenting on whether any 'bean bag' rounds were involved or appropriate in this particular incident, we can say with absolute certainty that no agent would be deployed out in the field . . . without real guns and real bullets at their disposal."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...#ixzz1IgEWjBwg