I've got a Crossbreed for my 1911. I noted yesterday when I stripped down for bed that the mag on my 1911 wasn't seated. I got to looking at the holster and it appears possible that the holster or I moved around in such a way that the mag release button was pressed.
Has anyone else seen this issue?
Any suggestions for how to triage or correct the issue?
does your 1911 have a aftermarket or expended mag release button?
either way, try a piece of popsical stick about half by 3/4" and duct tape it to the holster behind where the mag button may be touching the holster. see if that prevents the button from contactaing the holster. use the flat of a screwdriver to press down on the tape. if the problem is the gun shifting/moving around in the holster it may work if you relieve some of the holster material in the mag area('V'shape). and call the makers to see if they have a record of this problem and their solution 1st.
Teachers can learn ua the rules;
Experience teaches you the exceptions
From what I've heard that tends to be a problem a lot of folks have with crossbreed and similar holsters. Most folks remedy it by cutting a hole where the mag release contacts and that solves their problem. Either that or they give it a 'combat cut' and lop off a good chunk of the leather backing and kill two birds with one stone if they also prefer a better grip on the draw.
Yesterday I thought it might have been a user error. Today it did it again. Time to get out the leather working tools I guess.
info@crossbreed says:
Simple fix.Get the leather wet on the backside in an area about the size of a quarter around the where the mag button hits. Then from the front side, work a bowl shaped depression into the backer with your thumb or a blunt, smooth tool. Let it dry and it'll hold the shape and provide some clearance for the mag button. This takes care of the issue 99% of the time.
Stupid question, how do I wet leather just in one spot?
to wet i just one spot, you use a sponge cut to shape.
I had the same "problem" when I swapped to slim grips, and it could come up with an extended button, too. If I sat just wrong against a hard surface the button would be depressed. As I really like the slim grips and wasn't about to swap to a shorter button, the holster was the place to make an adjustment.
My solution was too make a beveled triangular cutout, but there's no reason you couldn't put a dent in place instead. My cutout did not come out pretty, but it can't snag the button and it always allows a clean draw ... looking back I should have done the dent and then made a cut with something more delicate than my pocketknife if needed.
Any gun-molded holster can have this happen if the mold and user's gun aren't a perfect match. Assuming this is a right-hand holster, tweaking the leather is easy. If it were a left-hand holster, Kydex adjustment is easy, but the location might be a bit of a challenge,, nothing that couldn't be done with planning and some thought ... just a bit more than the usual "borrow wifey's hairdryer, warm it up, push it the way you want it" method.
DON'T PANIC
Apparently pictures made it into the cloud:
The shape allows the gun to be drawn without a snag or push on the button, it just wipes out smoothly because of the beveled cut. The cut was initially pointed, but a few hundred (more?) repetitions for dryfire practice made it rounded at the top, which is fine, wear stopped quickly after some initial rounding, then I smeared the cut with Obenauf's leather preservative and it is as durable as the dyed portions of the holster now, just not as pretty.
===
The REAL long-term solution os to get a gun that can't have the mag dropped by the holster no matter what. Heel releases accomplish that, as does the Walther/HK flipper under the trigger guard. Any gun with a button-style release can have the mag dropped by sideways pressure ... it isn't a CrossBreed fault, it isn't a 1911 fault, it is a design risk (I won't call it a "flaw") inherent to the button mag release. You work around it and check your mag once in a while.
DON'T PANIC
Tell that to Comp-Tac and Galco who both make similar style holsters but without any material that would depress the mag release.... it isn't a CrossBreed fault
Sorry guys, these fixes are all nonsense. You aren't addressing the real problem.
The real problem is, it is too easy to dump the magazine.
I have seen this problem on a Colt .380 Govt, and on my 1911, on my KelTec P32, and pretty sure on other guns too (all with standard mag releases). I finally got smart and fixed the problem: started shaving the mag release buttons down. On the 1911 I carefully determined the minimum height needed that would still allow me to release the mag, popped the mag catch and chopped it short with a dremel tool. On the KelTec I just sanded the plastic down. I have never had the problem with a shortened button.
The proper place for a magazine release is the butt of the grip. Instead, due to style and to other silly reasons, we are saddled with the accidental release-prone style we now have in most guns. It's even worse with drop-free magazines.
Here's the reality: in a gun fight, it is really, really bad to pull your gun and have the magazine fall to the ground. You now have an 18th century muzzle-loader in your hands (assuming you don't have a mag safety, which turns your gun into a prehistoric club). The only advantage is that the perp may fall down laughing.
Shave your mag button. Who cares if it takes an extra 0.2 seconds to intentionally drop your mag? It DOESN'T MATTER unless you are in some competition that has nothing to do with reality.
Paul - Got pics of your shaved mag catch? It doesn't look like theres a commercial product out there and I'd like to see what you did.
Wetting and pounding the leather worked for me. Got it wet on the back and used a big punch to mash it flat.
I think the takeaway here is that its *your* gear. We shouldn't just accept that a manufacturer or expert knows more than we do. If theres a change to make, make it and make your gear work for you.
This is an individual call. I care because I practice and train with my CCW piece and competition is a good way to measure my progress. I think it matters in the real world because a lot of weapon failures are either caused by the magazine or solved by dropping the mag to clear the malf.Shave your mag button. Who cares if it takes an extra 0.2 seconds to intentionally drop your mag? It DOESN'T MATTER unless you are in some competition that has nothing to do with reality.
I could take more off the 1911 as I still have plenty of room to drop the mag without getting the button flush with the frame.
The KelTec is difficult because the button sits entirely above the surrounding surface, whereas the grip panel on the 1911 somewhat protects its button. I've shaved it on the KelTec about as much as I can and still get the mag out. The next step would be trying to build up the surrounding surface a bit with RTV or something similar (or fussing with the holster, or getting a stronger spring somehow...). The KelTec design cries out for a heel release. Fashion!
This reminds me I should do this treatment to the CZ75 although I've never seen the issue there and looking at the design it looks less of a problem.
Training is certainly good for some things, e.g. committing various actions to "muscle memory". For other things, e.g. reflecting reality, it's often not very good.
Here is reality: In the universe of gun actions, the large majority require no shots fired to drive off the perp. Of the remainder, the large majority require only a shot or two to finish. Even in a defensive situation, it's highly unlikely any of us will ever need to push that magazine button during the action. If we have to, we can still do it with a shaved button. All we are getting with an unshaved button, is the ability to do something that is extremely unlikely to need doing, a tiny bit faster than we could do it with a shaved button. And what is the cost? The fairly likely disaster of having your mag hit the floor the first time you need to pull your gun for defense.
To me, the tiny, tiny benefit of having an unshaved button does not even come close to matching the cost of an unplanned magazine drop. Of course extended releases are pure idiocy. The first rule of a gun fight is to have a gun. The second rule is to have a magazine in the gun.
Note, this is not just a holster problem. It is not impossible that, in the heat of battle, a person would unintentionally bump the mag release while the gun is in his hand. With a heel release that also cannot happen.
Last edited by Paul47; July 16th, 2011 at 03:31 PM.
Another way to look at this is to ask yourself this question: If you were going into a gunfight and you somehow had a choice between having one of these two malfunctions, which would you choose?
1) An unplanned mag drop
2) A completely nonfunctional mag release, so you can't get the mag out of the gun
I don't know about you, but I'd sure rather have malfunction #2. At least you have 7 or 16 (or whatever) shots left, rather than 1 or 0.
Probability? In about 20 years of carry, I've had something like 5 unplanned mag releases. I've had a single case I couldn't get the mag out (rusty/gunked up release button, IIRC).
A trimmed mag button is not anywhere near as bad as a nonfunctional mag release, and a nonfunctional mag release is nowhere near as bad as an unplanned (and more probable) mag release.
Do you ever do training for an unplanned mag drop? Maybe it would be a good idea... "Hold on Mr. Bad Guy while I retrieve my mag, check for dented feed lips, and put it back in the gun!"
Looking at that mod it doesn't seem like it'd slow down the mag change that much. The only concern I'd have with a shorter mag release is that it still allows the catch to be depressed enough to reliably drop the mag.
Just slowly push it in while you watch it. You will get an idea how much you can take off. If you go too far, well it's the cost of another latch, whatever that is.
I had this happen once, made a minor fitting change to the holster, never happened again. I use my index finger to drop the mag, so I don't change grip at all to do a mag change - drove one firearms instructor nuts during annual qualification, insisting I was doing it wrong. I was the only one with a malfunction free shoot that day.
Interesting idea with the button shaving thing, similar to some pistols that have a raised protective fence around most of the button.
You know, regardless of the likelihood of having to drop a mag and reload in a defensive situation, I'd still much rather have the fast reload that I've trained for the past 10 years rather than shaving my mag release button down to where I have to take extra time and attention in order to get my mag to drop properly. If anything I've been thinking about trimming the other end of the mag release so that I can more easily drop the mag with the middle finger of my shooting hand during a reload.
As far as the "proper placement" of the mag release being the butt of the pistol, try actuating that one handed and make sure you post a video on youtube so I can laugh.
While the chances of needing the gun are slim, and the chances of needing a reload are even slimmer, I'd rather have something that will allow me to remain combat effective in as many situations as possible. The way I have my pistols set up I'm able to operate either (G26 or Colt Commander) completely one handed with either right or left hand. I think this is very important in a CCW, and is extremely slow and difficult to do with a pistol that has the mag release on the butt of the gun, and at the least it's slower and less reliable with a "shaved" mag release.
As an aside, this is the very first time I've ever heard of someone trimming their mag release button down.
Before I began modifying a holster, ham handed as I am with tools, I might invest in an extra power mag release spring. See Brownell's, or go directly to the manfuacturer, Wolff.
Gee, I'd love to see your data!
One is not very effective with one's mag on the floor, no matter how fast one is at swapping mags. I prefer to address the real problems, not the improbable ones.While the chances of needing the gun are slim, and the chances of needing a reload are even slimmer, I'd rather have something that will allow me to remain combat effective in as many situations as possible.
Maybe you will never experience pulling a gun and having the magazine fall out, but I can assure you that you will be dismayed and angry if it ever happens to you, even if you are not in the middle of a firefight. At that moment, unintended magazine drops will become your number 1 issue to be dealt with.
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