Shane (1953)

[Johnny Dollar]

I don't know whether Shane is a pro-gun movie or not.It can be viewed on so many levels.
But,viscerally,down deep,to me this is the ultimate classic American conundrum of gun rights,property rights,anti-gun fears,the children,our future,the American Dream.
Shane has it all in the personages of Shane,Joe and Marian Starat,Joey,the Rykers,Torrey and the memorable hired gun, Wilson.
To me,Shane even after 55 years, still reaches somewhere deep down inside of us and makes us realize the Starat's dream is still our dream, and Shane with all his misgiving's, is the man most of us still want to be.
Who can forget the unforgettable scene when Shane twirls that revolver after dispatching the evil one?
It remains my all time favorite 'gun' film.

I wrote those words on THR 3 years ago . I watched Shane again this week and thought perhaps we could discuss the movie again.

[Treo]

I love the cinematography of Shane but to be perfectly honest they butchered the book.

In the book Shane was well dressed and unarmed when he rode up the valley and he was a lot more menacing that Alan Ladd's portrayal (More like Val Kilmer's Doc holliday) In the book Shane very clearly tells Bob that he must leave the valley because you can't go back from a killing. He alludes to this in the movie as well.

Louis L'amour mentions how ridiculous the concept of a Western town's citizens cowering before the evil outlaw is. Considering that the majority of men in western towns had military experience, were combat vets ( civil war) and veterans of indian fights.

I see the book as much more pro- gun than the movie. In the book Starret Sr. is stopped from throwing down on Fletcher ( Ryker) at least twice because Marion begs him not to.

In the book Shane's gun is described

There it was the most beautiful looking weapon I ever saw. Beautiful and deadly looking... I knew enough to know that the gun was a single action Colt, the same model as the Regular Army issue...
This was the same model. But this was no Army gun. It was black , almost blue black, with the darkness not in any enamel but in the metal itself.The grip was clear on the outer curve , shaped to the fingers on the inner curve.and two ivory plates were set into it with exquisite skill, one on each side.... It was clean and polished and oiled...I was surprised to see that the front sight was gone, the barrel smooth right down to the end, and that the hammer had been filed to a sharp point

SHANE Copyright 1949 By Jack Schaefer Houghton Mifflin Company Boston MA.

[Steel Talon]

Eastwoods Pale Rider has plot similarities to Shane. The lone man who is trying to leave his gunhand days behind. Comes to a miners town and becomes their saviour from the evil Coy Lahood.

Another thing of note for me. It was the first time I've ever saw a pistol speed load dipicted in a gunfight. (Western Genre film.)

[armoredman]

Yes, the 1858s, very cool. Loved that movie.

As for Shane, sorry, I have never seen it, will have to look it up sometime. My favorite Western will always be Silverado.

A Western with a main core about gun control, obvious and in your face about the tyranny of living under complete gun control, is Unforgiven.

[KodiakBeer]

was surprised to see that the front sight was gone, the barrel smooth right down to the end, and that the hammer had been filed to a sharp point

????

[Johnny Dollar]

As for Shane, sorry, I have never seen it, will have to look it up sometime. My favorite Western will always be Silverado.

Shane can be found on Amazon and many other sites at a low cost.This link includes a trailer:

http://www.amazon.com/Shane/dp/B000N...4557253&sr=8-1

[Treo]

????

You'll have to ask Jack Schaefer I just copied exactly what the book said. Given some of the stereotypes Schaeffer uses, I think it's highly unlikely that he had much experience W/ his subject matter.
After the gunfight W/ Wilson Schaefer has Shane breaking open the cylinder on a gun he's already described as a single action Colt's Army, to reload it.

[Old Dog]

Shane and High Noon, my two all-time favorite Westerns ... Ah, JD, you've done it again -- reminded me of yet another flick I need to add to my collection.

Louis L'amour mentions how ridiculous the concept of a Western town's citizens cowering before the evil outlaw is. Considering that the majority of men in western towns had military experience, were combat vets ( civil war) and veterans of indian fights.

Well, I'd read this LL statement before, Treo. Still don't necessarily agree with it entirely (although, as a kid, I used to tell my dad -- hey, surely all the townsfolk have their own guns, why don't they fight back?) because my life experience has provided indications to me that most people are just trying to get through their lives as easy as possible and few folks - regardless of their backgrounds, experiences or capabilities -- rise up against any sort of tyranny without some good leadership around ...

[Johnny Dollar]

Shane and High Noon, my two all-time favorite Westerns ... Ah, JD, you've done it again -- reminded me of yet another flick I need to add to my collection.

Always happy to help!

In the American Film Institute's 1998 voting on the 100 greatest movies of the 20th Century,High Noon was listed #33,Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid #50,Stagecoach #63 and Shane #69,the 4 highest scoring westerns. Dances With Wolves #75,The Wild Bunch #80 The Searchers was #96. Unforgiven came in at #98.

Some may consider Treasure of the Sierra Madre a western.If you do, it came in at #30

Here is the complete list with updates in 2007:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s...ary_Edition%29

On this link, YouTube gives us a quick trailer on all 100:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UYlX1-mj4s

[Dave Workman]

Shane may be the perfect western, with flaws. It is certainly one of my favorites.

Originally, George Stevens had wanted Monty Clift for the part according to one story I read, but he wasn't available. So Alan Ladd came in and delivered the performance of his career. That he didn't get the Oscar for that is a cryin' shame, because I think he did a better job in Shane than Gary Cooper did in High Noon.

The movie was made in 1950 in the summer, but not released until 1953. I dunno what was up with that.

The flaws came at the end of the film. We see Shane riding off on the prairie, then we see him up a timbered ridge and finally we see him riding past the cemetery kind of slumped on his saddle, which was on the other side of town and up an open ridge from Grafton's, and that has never made sense to me.

But nobody can say that nickel-plated sixgun with the horsehead grips wasn't pretty and deadly looking at the same time.

I think the film was pro-gun and anti-violence, which is fine with me. It demonstrated that in the West, and maybe even today, when there is no law available, we have to meet a threat head on and deal with it.

If you wear buckskins in the process, that makes you the good guy

[Johnny Dollar]

The movie was made in 1950 in the summer, but not released until 1953. I dunno what was up with that.

According to this Wiki article,Director George Stevens' obsessive editing created the delay.The film cost over 3 million to make a very large sum in 1951 ,but ended up grossing over 20 million, a handsome return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_%28film%29

Although the film was made between July and October 1951, it was not released until 1953 due to director Stevens' extensive editing. The film cost so much to make that at one point, Paramount negotiated its sale to Howard Hughes, who later pulled out of the arrangement.[citation needed]

The studio felt the film would never recoup its costs, though it ended up making a significant profit. Another story[specify] reported that Paramount was going to release the film as "just another western" until Hughes watched a rough cut of the film and offered to buy it on the spot from Paramount for his RKO Radio Pictures. Hughes' offer made Paramount reconsider the film for a major release.

Here is another inside look at Shane from Lifted Magazine:

http://www.liftedmagazine.com/index-2.asp?ID=153

“He rode into our valley in the summer of ’89…” was the opening line of Jack Schaefer’s 1949 novel Shane, which was dedicated to his first son. There is gentle irony in this as both the novel and movie unfold through the eyes of a 10-year-old boy, injecting a refreshing sense of wide-eyed innocence into a violent story.

On a summer morning in 1951 at Jackson Hole, Wyoming, the cameras began to roll on what would be almost immediately recognized as a classic. Veteran director George Stevens had a dream cast to work with, each near perfect for their respective roles —with Alan Ladd as Shane, Van Heflin as Joe Starrett, Jean Arthur as Marian Starrett, and Jack Palance as the hired killer Jack Wilson.

[pyrguy]

Old single action Colts had the firing pin as part of the hammer rather than a separate part attached to the frame. Filing the point of the firing pin down might of made the force of the in hitting the primer higher to assure firing the cartage. Same force of the sprung acting on a smaller area = more energy transfered.

[Dave Workman]

Pale Rider was a remake of Shane.

"Malone" with Burt Reynolds was a remake with an updated timeline.

Neither was as good as the original, of course.

"I've heard you're a low down Yankee liar."

"Prove it."

[ClayInTx]

Many years ago I wrote an article about prohibition and crime. I included information about the western gun fighter. This required extensive research.

The movies are entertaining but very unreal concerning the “western gunfighter”.

Of the gunfighters, outlaw and law, there were only 36 (that’s right—only thirty-six) who “made the news” over a period of fifty years; 1869 to 1919. You can find listings of hundreds but these are really just copies of police blotters for anything from one robbery to public nuisance.

The average time a gang lasted was nineteen months from first crime to caught or killed. The James gang lasted longest. It’s said James’s career started in 1866, but actually it was 14 February 1869 when he pulled his first real big robbery in Liberty, Kansas. In 1876 the gang got shot up in Northfield, Minnesota, and that ended that. One gang lasted only one day.

The only real fast-draw gunman was John Wesley Hardin and he wasn’t really an outlaw; the Texas governor pardoned him because, as Hardin put it, “I never killed a man who didn’t need killing.” I don’t include him in the outlaw list.

Also, very few carried their guns as depicted in the movies because carrying on the hip is the best way to lose a gunfight there is. Hardin used a crossdraw. Many of the outlaws didn’t even use a handgun, usually a carbine or a shotgun. And meeting in the middle of the street in front of the Long Branch Saloon was a no-no; better to shoot in the back from an alley.

Matt Dillon wouldn’t have lasted three days in the real West.

[KodiakBeer]

Clay, I wonder what the US Marshals service would have on the subject? They were the ones who publicized criminals from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and would seem (to me) to be a better source than newspaper accounts. After all, most of those papers went out of business, burned down, threw out all the old copy, whatever, long ago.

I also would suspect that many "one time" shooters were actually professional criminals since you merely had to ride a hundred miles and change what you called yourself to assume a new identity.

[Johnny Dollar]

I just watched Shane again for perhaps the 20th time since I first saw it as a child in 1953.It never fails to move me.Particularly the scene where Shane is teaching the child, Joey, how to draw and shoot a six gun.

His mom,Marian becomes alarmed and Shane patiently explains,"A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that."

It does not get much better than that. "Spoken" In 1953. We've been trying to tell anti-gunners exactly that our whole lives.

George Stevens was well out in front of the pack with that wonderful dialogue.

[Treo]

In the book that conversation happens with Bob

"Listen Bob A gun is just a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool, a shovel- or an axe or a saddle or a stove or anything. Think of it always that way. A gun is as good -and as bad- as the man who carries it. Remember that."

I know “Shane” is one of JD’s favorite movies but I’d love to see a remake that is more true to the book.
I would have cast Val Kilmer (or maybe Powers Booth) as Shane and I would have kept it that Shane remained unarmed until the very end of the movie.

In the scene referenced above Bob is playing “Indian fighter” w/ an old broken gun and Shane asks him about his play and gives him a few pointers , using Bob’s old broken pistol. Other than the final show down Shane never carries a gun throughout the entire book.
At the end of the book Shane tells Bob:

A man is what he is Bob, and there’s no breaking the mold. I’ve tried that and I’ve lost. "

He then states:

“There’s no going back from a killing, Bob. Right or wrong the brand sticks and there’s no going back”

SHANE Copyright 1949 By Jack Schaefer Houghton Mifflin Company Boston MA.

[Selena]

Interesting, I've never seen the movie but it makes me wonder if a remake was done if it would reflect the modern 'urban' attitude that firearms are a basic evil that has been inflicted on society rather than just another tool.

[Loosedhorse]

Sigh. Not my favorite movie, because I find Alan Ladd wooden, and the kid ("SHAHHHEHHEEEENNNNNNNNUHHHHHH!") annoying.

Elisha Cook does well, and Jack Palance is brilliant; he received his second Oscar nomination in as many years--who could have known he would wait 38 years for another! But he was responsibile for what many consider the best art ever broadcast on TV: Rod Serling's Requiem for a Heavyweight in 1956.

The best line from the film is quoted often on gun boards like this one:

A gun is a tool, Marion, no better or no worse than any other tool, an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it.

[Ron James]

ahhh, All you youngsters are forgetting one of the real classics, Ride the High Country with Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea. This movie is even taught in film courses in collage. Randolph Scott's last movie and is the story of an end of an era.

[Johnny Dollar]

ahhh, All you youngsters are forgetting one of the real classics, Ride the High Country with Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea. This movie is even taught in film courses in collage. Randolph Scott's last movie and is the story of an end of an era.

We did mention it back in February in another thread,Ron. It hasn't been forgotten!

http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showpo...9&postcount=38

8.Ride the High Country .Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott go down fighting, both making their last western together.Beautifully done. 4 Stars

[Zipperhead]

*******

[AirForceShooter]

"The Wild Bunch."


The bestest

AFS

[230RN]

armoredman:

As for Shane, sorry, I have never seen it, will have to look it up sometime. My favorite Western will always be Silverado.

When you do, watch for the two scenes mentioned above --when Shane is talking to Marian about guns, and the wide-eyed look of astonishment on Brandon DeWilde's face in the target-shooting scene.

Jean Arthur's simpery, whimpery voice in that "gun is a tool" scene so completely matches my conception of the simpery, whimpery, hand-wringing type of person who would rather bury their head in the sand about reality than face it.

The business of a whole town acting cowardly always bothered me a little, but I see it as symbolic of --or an example of --a changing society as a whole... where the conquering spirit of an expanding west has started to give way to the dirt-busting "hearth and home" types --"gatherers" if you will. But the two types still interact occasionally. Selena and Old Dog touched on that a little.

That last scene was kind of a letdown to me, too, kind of a weak ending dictated by a committee of writers or the director saying, "Okay, how do we end this one?" and running out of ideas except to perhaps take off on The Lone Ranger-type endings.

"Who was that masked man, anyway?"

"I don't know, but I wanted to thank him."

"Hi-oooh, Silver, awa-a-a-ay!"

"Shane! Shaaayyyynnne! Come back, Shaaayyyne!"

(Come back, old west, old "hunter," old adventurer, to us mere dirt-busting "gatherers.")

But at least with The Lone Ranger, you knew he'd come back --in next week's episode.

Terry, 230RN

[KodiakBeer]

We've mythologized the "old west" to the point where it's no longer recognizable for what it was.

First of all, most of those new settlers and miners weren't hardscrabble farmers from Georgia or Ohio toting rifles with which they could shoot the eye out of a squirrel, they were Europeans from Ireland, Poland, Scandinavia or elsewhere who had little background in guns.

Somebody mentioned the Northfield raid, but the only reason we remember that is because it was the exception rather than the rule. The James/Dalton gang (and others) had done the same thing in small towns across Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma and met no resistance at all. Nobody was more shocked than them that those "squareheads" in Northfield had actually shot back.

Our impression of the period comes from dime novelists whose fanciful tales later became films which became a genre that fed on itself. The average guy in the old west had a European accent and bad teeth. He dressed up and went to church on Sunday and never saw a gunfight in his entire life. The tragedies in his life came of drought and typhoid, not gunfighters.

Let's enjoy westerns for the fiction they are.