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Thread: The Gun Obsession by Donald Mccarthy

  1. #26
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    As a not-so-young man from MA, I am curious as to who this gadfly is. Personally, I do not believe either that guns are designed to kill, or that such is their only purpose.
    I don;t either but he has his pet line and the fact that I do not terrorize old ladies and children, do not rob convenience stores or banks and none of my guns has ever made anybody who touched them into a raving homicidal maniac is irrelevant to him.

    Shooting tiny chunks of carefully crafted projectiles towards ridiculously small objects at impossibly long ranges is irrelevant, competing for years in competitions means nothing. Guns are evil, they are made for killing and I am obviously weak willed or I would find more uplifting past times to occupy my days. He admits his boys play hockey but they play by rules unlike us gun nuts?????????

    Besides if you bring out a gun the bad guy will take it away from you and then another criminal will be armed. He knows this for a fact because he read a study done by the Joyce foundation who did it for the CDC. Heavy Sigh!

    Some people are beyond convincing and the best anybody can do is to try and be the calm voice of reason for the bystanders who may not be as hardheaded about the subject.
    1934 – National Firearms Act, 1968 – The Gun Control Act, 1986 – Firearms Owners Protection Act, 1993 – Brady Handguns Violence Act, 1994 – Assault Weapons Ban, 1995 – Gun Free School Zones Act, NO MORE COMPROMISING

  2. #27
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    Some people are beyond convincing and the best anybody can do is to try and be the calm voice of reason for the bystanders who may not be as hardheaded about the subject.
    And some of those people just like to play with the objects of their attention like a cat with a mouse.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

    'Harry Callahan' Magnum Force 1973

  3. #28
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    Talking

    I never worry about "escalation"...a good.way to avoid my "escalating the situation"is to not take my low key,low profile and quietly polite demeanor for weakness,or an unwillingness to main or kill anyone who presents a credible threat to my safety by attacking me or mine...and I regard a house creep with me in the house as a home invasion,not a burglary-therefore its merely another credible threat that may need beating,stabbing,shooting; or defenestration.
    And my "self esteem"?This is the "high road",but I am rather....."gifted" ...no worries in THAT regard.
    Gregory Peter DuPont

  4. #29
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    Defensive Rifle

    I thought he was referring to the M1 Carbine.
    And, yes, I think Arfin was talking about the M1 Carbine.
    And we have a winner -- or two -- in the "name that rifle" sweepstakes.

    It is, to my knowledge the only military rifle ever spec'd explicitly as a defensive weapon.

    And if it's not the only one, I think it would easily be the first.




    Daughter: "Dad, how do I know who's a real friend?"
    Me: "A friend is someone who cares how your life turns out."


    "Truth is a dangerous thing: once found, you must never turn your back on it." -- gh@c2

    "Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe." -- gh@c2

  5. #30
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    I thought AMT made a semi auto 30 carbine pistol. I thought it looked like a scaled up version of the 22 mag they were producing.


    http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/_thum...1287746888.jpg


    Also , to hell with that just give em what they want bologna. Why dont we just keep all of our valuables in a box out by the curb in front of our houses. This way there wont be any violent robberies that might cause someone to feel like they need to shoot someone for their own safety. Then again most armed robbers wont shoot you for $80.00. It's just that small percentage of them that will kill you so there arent any witnesses to testify against them. We just need to try hard not to be in that small percentage of the executed.

    Does this guy just not discipline his kids and hope they turn to be decent folks? Violent behavior needs to be met with violent resistance if not for your own sake for everyone elses.
    Last edited by ArfinGreebly; September 5th, 2011 at 04:05 PM.
    Brandon

    Take a kid shooting. They are the future.

  6. #31
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    .30 Carbine

    I thought AMT made a semi auto 30 carbine pistol.
    A number of handguns have been tried. They keep thinking that a cartridge that size ought to work in a pistol.

    And it keeps turning out that it's really not a pistol cartridge, but a reduced power rifle cartridge.

    It could find a home as a really fun plinking cartridge and varmint round, but its very design keeps it from being a broad application hunting round or a usable pistol round (especially indoors).

    It really, honestly is a defensive rifle cartridge. It would be fine in a camp or ranch rifle. Pressed into the job, it will serve as an "adequate" hunting round.

    Could it be a viable pistol round? Sure, if you changed the powder, came up with some decent bullet variations, and . . . wait . . . we already have a bunch of cartridges right in that power range and size. Maybe if I had a few million dollars and had nothing better to do with them, I could start a one-man revival of the .30 carbine in assorted powers and loads. I could even be famous before I went broke doing it.




    Daughter: "Dad, how do I know who's a real friend?"
    Me: "A friend is someone who cares how your life turns out."


    "Truth is a dangerous thing: once found, you must never turn your back on it." -- gh@c2

    "Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe." -- gh@c2

  7. #32
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    What They Want

    Also, to hell with that just give em what they want bologna. Why don't we just keep all of our valuables in a box out by the curb in front of our houses. This way there wont be any violent robberies that might cause someone to feel like they need to shoot someone for their own safety. Then again most armed robbers wont shoot you for $80.00. It's just that small percentage of them that will kill you so there arent any witnesses to testify against them. We just need to try hard not to be in that small percentage of the executed.
    The primary problem with "give 'em what they want" is that you have no way of knowing what they really want.

    A man who will stand in front of you and threaten violence over your possessions cannot be counted on to tell you the truth about his "wants."

    Any number of people have been buried who acquiesced to the robber's demands. Turned out that what he really "wanted" included the death of the victim. Too bad he didn't state that at the outset: "hey, I'm gonna kill you no matter what you do, but I still want you to open the safe and give me all the cash."

    Nah. Probably not.

    Last edited by ArfinGreebly; September 6th, 2011 at 02:41 AM. Reason: typppo

    Daughter: "Dad, how do I know who's a real friend?"
    Me: "A friend is someone who cares how your life turns out."


    "Truth is a dangerous thing: once found, you must never turn your back on it." -- gh@c2

    "Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe." -- gh@c2

  8. #33
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    The primary problem with "give 'em what they want" is that you have no way of knowing what they really want.
    Not to mention Arfin it kind of goes along with that old saw about feeding stray dogs.

    Now really guys, someone cant be serious about saying just give a robber what he wants and he weill go away. You dont have to watch the news or read the papers very long to see a robbery victim that complied with all the demands being wheeled out by the coroner.
    Brandon

    Take a kid shooting. They are the future.

  9. #34
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    If they have a gun or not they should give the burglar what they want.
    And if "they" want your wife and pre-teen daughter? How about if what they want includes binding you and forcing you to watch while they rape and sodomize the love of your life and mother of your children? (Google "Ski-Mask Rapist of Sedge Garden-North Carolina circa 1979)

    Burglary/home invasion isn't always about your stereo.

    I heard one comment by a politician...can't remember who...that went like this:

    We shouldn't worry too much about the guns. It's the bullets that should be banned. Bullets were designed to make holes in things."

    This is the mentality of our adversaries. Know it...and keep up with what they're doing. Please do bring this to the forum at every opportunity. Hopefully, it will inspire many of the "Silent" majority to write letters and flood the switchboards.
    Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.
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  10. #35
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    On the penis thing, it is the anti-gunners who are obsessed with guns as symbols of independence and individual power and (like the slave masters in "Mandingo") are obsessed with a castrating complex. They want a peaceful utopia of eunuchs, with boss-down heirarchies of power, otherwise they fear total chaos. The idea of an area of human endeavour or behavior left to good judgement and natural consequences terrifies them: they want an intricate structure of laws and regulations on everything, even if their repressive laws are ignored by outlaws and more otherwise law-abiding people rebel and become outlaws themselves.

    When I was doing library research on gun control in the 1960s (Readers Guide to Periodical Literature, topic Firearms Legislation) I noticed that some authors--Carl Bakal, Robert Sherrill--spent a lot of ink obsessing about guns and their control. "Gun obsession" is sometimes an example of psychological projection. If I had a dime everytime an antigunner recounted a minor incident they were in and said "good thing I did not have a gun", I could buy coffee at Starbucks instead of McDonalds.

    ... give the burglar what they want and not attempt to shoot them thus escalating the situation...
    Locally we have newspaper reports of burglars detained for arrest at gun point (one burglar shot), and if my experience is typical, more cases of burglars scared off half of which were not reported. That's de-escalation. On the other hand we have had home invaders and carjackers who killed people then took what they wanted so "give them what they want" is not a good idea if what they want is to kill or rape. Submission to some sadistic personalities excites them, begging for mercy is a turn-on to them.
    Cogito me cogitare; ergo, cogito me esse.

  11. #36
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    OF late there has been a rash of burglars beign shot and killed while in the process of attempting to relieve a victim of their possessions, or caught and being held for arrest or attempting to run over the detainer.

    Its been tough run for the goblins, but I love the trend as the PA seems to be declining to prosecute most of the shooters.
    A Smith & Wesson Beats Four Aces.

  12. #37
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    Angry

    (Hm.... Who the heck let Tuner in here? He taught me most of what I know about the 1911 and then vanished before more important questions - like how to keep the doggie from messing the living room floor when company is over - could be dealt with ....)

    Seems to me that "give him what he wants" harks back to the days of the "gentleman burglar" or some such, who's stealing to buy food for his family, or something of that nature.

    I wonder if there are any statistics out there on the percentage of those brought to the greybar v.s. those who are stealing to feed their habits (drugs, that is), and seriously dangerous to the rest of us.

    (Not to mention the folks who just do it for the heck of it, or otherwise indulge in seriously dangerous and anti-social behavior that needs to be regulated.)

    Now, add that to views that slaves don't need guns - the "government" will protect them, and the very un-PC view that "minorities" simply can't be allowed to have them, and we start to get some idea of why "just let them have what they want" is both popular with the anti's, and just plain nuts....

    Locally, we had two killings (about a year apart) more or less on the steps of a Church, in a half-decent area. The Mayor's response to both incidents was to hold a prayer rally.... A rally to demand that those who punch the tickets of such killers wasn't on the list.... (It's also a Felony in OH to carry in a house of worship" without a "Concealed Carry Welcome" sign, or individual permission.... So, had the victims been capable of carrying, they'd have died before they could get to their cars.... I think the politidiots are waiting for another Luby's....)

    Regards,
    Stu

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  13. #38
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    People own guns because they desperately want to feel important and powerful. There’s always the joke that gun owners are compensating for a small penis and there’s a bit of truth to that. They are compensating for something; they’re compensating for a low self-esteem.


    I've heard that one more than a few dozen times, and not about guns actually. Supposedly I was 'compensating' by custom building a nice gaming desktop and going to the gym. Nobody has ever accused me of 'compensating' because of what I drive, but God help you if custom building engines is your thing as you probably hear that one almost daily.

    Honestly I'm not sure if there's all that many things you can get into without "compensating", maybe art?

  14. #39
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    Compensating With Art

    Honestly I'm not sure if there's all that many things you can get into without "compensating", maybe art?
    Well, that's certainly a different kettle of turtles.

    If you think about that for a moment, and consider what, in this day and age, passes for art, you might be inclined to believe that "artists" are, indeed, compensating for something.

    One might speculate on what that "something" would be . . .
    -- inability to process reality?
    -- inability to think rationally?
    -- absence of self worth?
    . . . ah, what a Freudian festival you could have with that.


    I'm sure that, with a little work, you could find some kind of "compensating" mechanism for just about anything you cared to denigrate.


    Daughter: "Dad, how do I know who's a real friend?"
    Me: "A friend is someone who cares how your life turns out."


    "Truth is a dangerous thing: once found, you must never turn your back on it." -- gh@c2

    "Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe." -- gh@c2

  15. #40
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    I'll be the first to admit that I'm compensating.

    Compensating for the fact that I'm too old and tired to fight...too stove up to run...and I just don't think I could heal up from a beat-down like I could 30 years ago.
    Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.
    --Your faithful dog

    http://www.collierescue.net/available/index.html


    To see my real work:

    http://www.pets-r-great.org:80/magaz...ue1/cover.html

  16. #41
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    Tuner:

    You're younger than I am....

    For "Art", I have a couple cameras, and used to do my own processing too. I'm a lot better technician than artist, though, but I do have a couple prints around here that aren't all that bad.

    However, I've also seen some "Art" that really needs the quotation marks around it. Makes you wonder what the "artist" was smoking/ingesting.

    My wife keeps getting on my case because I do blame age for a lot of things, and use a cane (courtesy of Sammy the dog), but she's seven years younger than I am. Years ago, I used to have to nap after supper, and caught it for that. Until she got a little older....

    And, Arfin, you're right, too - about anything could be called "compensating" if somebody wanted to. People like to pigeonhole, I think, and there's a very strong MSM tendency to call us "bad"....

    Fox reports that the Mexican cartels are getting grenades from US sporting goods stores now.... With Justice's help.... I guess you can get the cases, but.... Just makes no sense. What also makes no sense is when Zero or the Mexican government blamed us LAC's for the cartel's guns, the MSM were all over it. Now that it's fairly obvious that both Zero and the Mexicans lied, the MSM, other than Fox, have said very little....

    Tell you anything?

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    Stu

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  17. #42
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    Maybe, Stu...and maybe not. I don't provide my real stats unless and until I've sat down, broke bread, and partaken of turbocoffee with forum folks...and not even all of those get the whole story.

    But, even if I am...I've been rode hard and put up wet. I hurt in so many places that I gotta use two mirrors to see'em all. Some days, it takes me five minutes just to get outta bed.
    Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.
    --Your faithful dog

    http://www.collierescue.net/available/index.html


    To see my real work:

    http://www.pets-r-great.org:80/magaz...ue1/cover.html

  18. #43
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    Tuner:

    Can't remember where or when, but you did tell somebody (me?) your age, a while back.... Or so my somewhat enfeebled mind tells me. (I just turned 65.)

    Only five minutes to get out of bed? Sheesh.... Sammy starts to pester as soon as I get IN bed, and if I'm lucky I manage to get him to the door before I need the clean-up gear . Sherri could sleep through an air raid.... (Sammy lost his doggie door privileges, and got my attention about 0800 on a Saturday. I missed a step and broke a couple toes. Hence the cane....)

    And, back to topic, maybe I've been hanging with the "gun fraternity" too long, but it really amazes me that you can show these guys things, and they still go goofy.... Probably 40 years ago, my sister (who's now an MD and about as stupidly anti as you can get) and I got into a discussion related to the "jump off the table and spray bullets" thing. I went into another room and grabbed an old Charter "Undercover .38", and proceeded to show her (by way of a pencil) how the "hammer block" worked. The second time the pencil did NOT fly across the room, she ran out screaming "you cheated!"....

    (She is currently in TX, and convinced that the Dallas area ER's are full of shot-up kids every night.... 'Bout lost it when I told her that I'd been carrying the whole time I was there a couple years ago. And will be again next visit.)

    I can (almost) understand more or less rational people thinking that "guns scare me, so Tuner shouldn't have one", however irrational that may be, but the whole "by any means, fair or foul" just makes me shake my head.

    Here in OH, the current "Must Issue" setup is quite new - 2004 - and a lot of people don't really understand. They believe that signs will keep criminals out.... But the zinger is the "compliance package" folks who send businesses a pile of signs that you "must post" (and there are a bunch), and thoughtfully include a "No Firearms" sign.... A local hardware store had one of those up, took it down (or it fell down) for about a year, and then somehow got one with a BBB logo on it! It's gone, too, now....

    We just got "restaurant carry" - effective 10/01/11 - where you can carry (but not drink!) in a bar or restaurant that serves alcoholic beverages. Some owners, afraid of the "guns in bars" publicity that went along with the passage of this legislation, are already posting.... Yup, those signs will work well for them, too....

    (We did have one victory - "UDF", which is a sort of 7-11, ran with a "no guns, no how, no way" since 2004, disregarding the various shoot-outs and such. Why do we call 'em "stop & rob"? The signs came down a few weeks ago....)

    Regards,
    Stu

    (Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

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  19. #44
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    my sister (who's now an MD and about as stupidly anti as you can get)
    My in-laws were solid anti-gun, anti-hunting and anti-self defense when we were first married. Somewhere between the molasses cured venison ham, quail pot pie and Dad introducing FiL to the fine art of hitting a target with a .22 rifle they have 'softened' their stance considerably.

    Dad claims, FiL was just dealing with his fear of violence by vilifying tools that could be used for violence. Once he saw the tools as simple tools he reassessed. I claim it's just a bit hard for him to be anti-hunting when he's always asking if I have any venison I can spare.

  20. #45
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    I'm sure that, with a little work, you could find some kind of "compensating" mechanism for just about anything you cared to denigrate.
    I am a firm believer that anybody accusing people of over compensating for a small penis is over compensating for something.

    ah, what a Freudian festival you could have with that.
    Yes indeed!
    Brandon

    Take a kid shooting. They are the future.

  21. #46
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    I noted in the 1960s that psychological accusations revealed more about the psychology of the accuser than about the accused.

    Fox reports that the Mexican cartels are getting grenades from US sporting goods stores now.... With Justice's help.... I guess you can get the cases, but.... Just makes no sense.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War
    Code:
    Sources of Weapons in the Mexican Drug War (Wikipedia)
    
    Weapon:                 Primary Source:
    
    AK rifle variants 
    semi-automatic:         United States
    select-fire:            Central America, South America, Middle East, Africa, 
                            Central Asia, South Asia, East Asia
    AR-15 rifle 
    semi-automatic:         United States
    M16 select-fire:        Vietnam
    
    Fragmentation grenades 
    M61/M67/MK2/K400 :      Central America, South Korea, Israel, Spain, 
                            Soviet bloc, Guatemala, Vietnam, Unknown
    Grenade launchers
    RPG-7/M72 LAW/M203:     Asia, Central America/Guatemala, North Korea
    
    Barrett M82 .50 cal:    United States
    
    M2 Carbine select fire: Vietnam
    Some Mexican drug war guns come from the US. Maybe 12% according to a global intelligence firm. See the sources on most of the grenades, above. Maybe the "unknown" are confidential informants of the US alphabet agencies (ATF, FBI, DEA) who have aided and abetted murder and mayhem in Mexico in exchange for questionable "intelligence". Who gets blamed? Me and you, the US "gun nut". Who is Holder and Brady poised to punish? Legitimate US gun dealers.
    Cogito me cogitare; ergo, cogito me esse.

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