Smallbore Defensive shotguns

[Pfletch83]

I started out with a Mossberg 500 model 50104 and swapped out the full choke barrel with the barrel off of a Mossberg 50455.

The little pump gun looks classy and while it might not throw out a large payload the smaller charge of pellets works very well.

I did so because I noticed that the full choked barrel would skew the pattern with the larger shot.

The factory cylinder bore barrel throws them much tighter.

I put this together because I've always like the little thumper and thought it should be done justice.

Also because I felt that a family use scatter gun would be better in said caliber.

I've also been thinking of the 28 gauge for this application...

Any thoughts on the subject?

[Combat Diver]

As long as you can put lead on target where and when needed thats the important thing.

[Jeff F]

Thats a 500 in .410 isn't it. I would imagine it would work for HD with slugs or buckshot. I would not load it with bird shot for home defense duty. A 20 gauge would be a way better choice and a 12 would be my # 1 choice.

[nalioth]

Thats a 500 in .410 isn't it. I would imagine it would work for HD with slugs or buckshot. I would not load it with bird shot for home defense duty. A 20 gauge would be a way better choice and a 12 would be my # 1 choice.

Your .410 with buckshot would be the same as having 6 rounds of .38 Special all fired at once - to the same point of aim.

I don't see how that is ineffective in anyone's book, especially considering that there would at least be 30 more .38 caliber rounds available (in 6-round packages).


Sheesh, folks, the first rule of gunfighting is "Have a gun".

[Selena]

Hi Fletch and welcome,

It's use for home defense would depend on the pattern. If it is tight enough to have minimum spread at "in house" range it would be as good as most and better than many. If the pattern is all over the shop at maximum expected range you are in trouble plenty if you have no back up.

When my husband was overseas, I slept quite well knowing should there be problems in the night I had a 20 gauge loaded with #2 shot close by. But just in case... there was also a Colt Commander in 38 Super within reach as well.

[Carl N. Brown]

.410 #000 buckshot is listed at the same velocity as 12ga #000, the difference being .410 #000 2.5" shell carry 3, 3" shell carry 5, while the standard 12ga #000 shell carries 8.

[P5 Guy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Auto_%26_Burglar

Somebody thought it was a good idea back in the Roaring 20s

[Pfletch83]

Thanks for the warm welcome everybody.

The little .410 I put together has a six round total capacity.

The ammo used is 2-1/2 inch federal '000' buck (4 pellet load)

the 18.5 inch barrel throws them plenty tight at close range (as it should) and keeps them fairly close together at 7 yards (maybe a 2-3inch spread at that range at a rough guess)

Recoil is pretty much nonexistent follow up shots can be done very quickly (if needed)

The overall package is light weight,short and sweet (but still legal).

I can post a few pics of said .410 if anyone wants to take a look.

I'm also trying to get Ithaca to do a custom 28 gauge in their model 37 to try and bring that little hallway howitzer up to speed (again light weight,low recoil,and more payload than a .410)

[Pfletch83]

[Apple a Day]

I've tested some .410 rounds against cataloges. Slugs FAR outperformed any sort of handgun ammo I tried.
+1 what nalioth said about the buckshot.
Long gun > handgun

[Pfletch83]

One way to get the same type of scatter gun is to add a synthetic buttstock to the .410 cruiser (I've always been one for a wood stocked shotgun myself but plan on having the 24-inch ribbed barrel cut down to 18.5 and swapping out the pistol grip only to a synthetic buttstock on the cruiser) .

[Old Grump]

Welcome to the forum Pfletch83. Don't forget to book mark us and post often.

You discovered what I found out two years ago during a 2 week frigid 20 degree below zero snap. My targets, (2 liter bottles of water set out overnight in -30 temperatures), were set out at various ranges from 8 yards to 20 yards. They were taking hits with the .410 using 0000 and 000 shot and at eight and ten yards were tearing that hard frozen ice bottle up nice and convincingly. I still prefer my 20 gauge for in house defense but my sister can handle the .410 even with her arthritic hands and back.

You will never convince the 00 boys with their 3 1/2" tacticool 12 gauge guns but nobody wants to get shot and with the right load the .410 can convince any hard case that he picked the wrong address to break into. Especially at close up in-house ranges.

Does a number on rabbits at 35 yards too. I didn't expect to make that shot but dead is dead. I admit I cheated and put rifle sights on mine which makes it a little more likely that I am going to hit what I am aiming at. I need all the help I can get.

[Selena]

I still prefer my 20 gauge for in house defense but my sister can handle the .410 even with her arthritic hands and back.

On subjects I have no experience with, I fall back on my elder's wisdom. To wit- a .22 ball through the brain beats a .45 ball through the window. Or maybe, the life saving weapon is the one you can hit your target with when you are scared enough to pee your pants.

[Dave McCracken]

Should work,if you hold up your end, Pfletch.

Practice,practice,practice....

[Pfletch83]

I practice as much as I can.

But from what I've seen this little setup hit's where you hold.

[Combat Diver]

You might also want to take a look at the new Winchester PDX loads.

CD

[Pfletch83]

I've thought about those PDX-1 loads and like the idea I just haven't been able to lay hands on any for testing.

But they are on the top of the list.

At the moment I'm trying to stock plie as many boxes of the Federal '000' as I can.

[Old Grump]

A little pricey but buy a box or two of slugs every time you pick up a few boxes of your favorites. I don't shoot them often and they aren't the most awesome slug on the market but they do a decent job if needed as long as you aren't trying to take down a rhinoceros.

[KodiakBeer]

I like the idea. A small load of 00 or 000 should be quite efficient and manageable for a lot of people who couldn't handle a 12 gauge, and the effects at the receiving end would still be nasty.

Let's take it a step further and posit a light auto "youth gun" in .410 for an elderly or handicapped individual. Who makes such a gun?

[Carl N. Brown]

Light auto in .410, besides Saiga?

[KodiakBeer]

Doesn't the 1100 also come in .410?

[Pfletch83]

Marstar Canada makes one in .410 but it's 2-1/2 in chamber only from the information posted.

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-Turkish-SG/SA-410.shtm

The Remington is gas driven with a 3-inch chamber right ?

From what I've seen the cost is high on the Remington offering and they don't make a shorter barrel for it in a fixed cylinder bore.

[Pfletch83]

I know that American tactical imports use to offer a .410 upper for the AR-15/M-4 but you'd still be limited to 2-1/2 inch shells only, due to the magazine and magwell.

(and yes I've thought very hard on that more than a few times)

[Guns and more]

I've thought about those PDX-1 loads and like the idea I just haven't been able to lay hands on any for testing.

Try Ammunition to go online.
I have a Mossy in 12 ga, and a Mossy in .410. For H/D, I like the .410, it has a lot going for it, and the die hard's that say, "The .410 is an anemic round" are starting to come around.

It's easy to practice with, and your family might be more willing to use it too.
The recoil is mild enough that I use the bead sights with a P/G.

I'm thinking of adding a Stoger Coach Gun in .410 to the collection. And that Saiga .410? Hmmmm....

[Pfletch83]

As corny as this is going to sound I put this together partly because of my injuries but the main reason is because I figure if I run into my ex again and we get back together this would be something the little doll babe could use without knocking her on her cute little posterior (she was all of 5 feet tall and might weigh 105 on a good day,she was mean at times but overall short sweet and to the point,needless to say I still miss the little lady so bad it hurts).