Meet the 'gun reformers'

[Dave Workman]

New term for gun prohibitionists doesn’t change their agenda

There’s a new term for extremist gun prohibitionists, courtesy of The Hill, a newspaper that serves Washington, D.C. that can join a lexicon of other terms all designed to hide the fact that those who use the words, or are described by them, want to abolish your gun rights.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...e-their-agenda

[armoredman]

A pile of dung by any other name would still smell as foul.

[Dave Workman]

'armoredman'

Must you always be so diplomatic?

[Johnny Dollar]

What can one say after reading that? Guns are still creeping around,not behaving,getting up on their hind legs and shooting folks indiscriminately.

Cops,store clerks,cabbies,Congressfolks it doesn't matter,they just got a mind of their own.

These 'reformers' are truly pathological. Stopping them in their tracks is our top priority. And stopped they will be.

[Selena]

Back in ancient times I'm told a company went to a quarry and picked up a load of ric rac. The found idiots that would pay a dollar for one by calling them 'pet rocks.' It would appear these people are searching for the right name to attract the idiots that will fill their cash registers. From those trying to save me from myself, may God protect me.

[Lanius]

Yeah.. still the same people, but 'reform' has a nice, positive connotation, unlike 'control'.

There is a decent book about the modern abuse of language in service of an agenda.

Called 'Unspeak'. Those of you who are nationalistic may not like it, one of the big offenders in this kind of rebranding is the Pentagon.

For example, they got a slightly different kind of napalm, rebranded it as Mark.77 firebomb and then claim they weren't using napalm anymore. Troops in the field didn't get the rebranding memo and thus happily told the journalists that of course it's napalm..

[Carl N. Brown]

Carrie Nation and Andrew Volstead (alcohol), Harry Anslinger (reefer), Fredrick Wertham (comic books), Thomas Dodd (mail-order guns) all sought to "reform" peoples' behavior by demonising and banning things.

Researcher David Kennedy has started programs that appear to reduce crime by getting people and police involved in addressing and reducing the motivation to commit crimes or bad behavior.

It is far, far easier though for these "reformers" to demonize guns and gun owners and use NRA as a four letter word. It is easier to self-righteously pose and rant than it is to do something meaningful.

The means is not an actor or a motivation. It is motivation that needs to be addressed if you want to reduce bad acts.

(NGAC claims to represent 14 million "gun victims" but its actual membership is far less. Its rhetoric is recycled from the late 1950s and 1960s, back when Gallup showed 59% supported banning handguns: today that is 26%. Its like the cheap tricks that Brady and VPC no longer use have been picked out of the dustbin by NGAC.)

[Johnny Dollar]

(NGAC claims to represent 14 million "gun victims" but its actual membership is far less. Its rhetoric is recycled from the late 1950s and 1960s, back when Gallup showed 59% supported banning handguns: today that is 26%. Its like the cheap tricks that Brady and VPC no longer use have been picked out of the dustbin by NGAC.)

Those numbers show we have made giant strides. Still a long way to go though.

These hoplophobes and control freaks will always be an intrinsic part of the National fabric,sad to say.

[sdprof]

What is it about the hoplophobic organizations that makes them also be inveterate liars? Taking a cruise around the NGVAC website one will find so many numbers pulled from the anal region as to be beyond ludicrous.

They claim to be a network of 14 million (...9 million victims (the loved ones of those who lost their lives to guns), their supporters, 5 million gun assault survivors, their supporters...). So they really are just taking those supposed numbers of victims and adding them to their camp.

At a later point they claim their numbers trump the NRA 50 to 1. NRA has about 4.3million actual members, so that 50:1 would be way over 200million? Every adult in the nation is on their side?

Maybe DEA needs to pay them a visit.

[Johnny Dollar]

What is it about the hoplophobic organizations that makes them also be inveterate liars? Taking a cruise around the NGVAC website one will find so many numbers pulled from the anal region as to be beyond ludicrous.

It is just Basic Goebbels again: Tell a lie often enough and it will be believed.

Or we can just go back to The Doobie Brothers and get more entertainment!

[bruno2]

Well I am going to give them some credit for the name. What they have done here is essentially using the same strategy to describe guns , but , the opposite to describe their org. They are just applying it to the name to un-villianize themselves. Ban or control does sound evil. Reform sounds so much more less harmful or intrusive. They have certainly got this type of propaganda down to an art. We see it as the deceitful tactic that it is. However, John Q. Public sees it as something more benign.

[Joist]

Who'll reform the 'reformers?'

[armoredman]

Alan Gura IS the reformer...

[230RN]

I'm wondering how many died-in-the-wool hoplophobes are going to band together to attempt repeal of the second amendment. It would seem that since recent court cases are viewing the second amendment as an individual right, their only recourse and long-term strategy is to try to repeal it.

The trouble is, almost any controversial bill (not referring only to gun bills) that fails seems to ultimately pass most of the time on repeated attempts just because of the statistics of the matter... flip 10, 20, or 435 coins often enough, and sooner or later 2/3 of them will come up "favorable," as it were.

Well, for 435 coin tosses, much later, but it's still a possibility.

I'm sure you've seen this before, where bills in your state legislatures finally pass after umpteen attempts each and every year.

(Isn't there some FedRep who introduces a 2A repeal bill every year? Don't remember for sure.)

So, to me, "Reform" may be something more than just a semantic dodge.

Terry, 230RN

PS. Seems appropriate here to repeat the Preamble, not to the constitution itself, but to the Bill of RIghts. Note the bolded part.

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, In order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

So maybe every time we quote 2A, we ought to add something about that Preamble.

[armoredman]

There was a Republican who filed a bill to repeal the 2A every year, Lincoln Chaffee, but he has since passed on to the great socialist state in the sky.

That section will be misconstrued and abused until the feds do something that only Florida has done - add penalties. So far, abusing the public trust and violating the Constitution seems to carry no penalty - let them be sued in open court by citizens for violations of their oath of office. At the very least, they'll spend to much time defending themselves to do any harm.
I know, bad idea...just a random thought.

[Johnny Dollar]

That section will be misconstrued and abused until the feds do something that only Florida has done - add penalties.

That is correct.Beginning back on October 1, 2011 the State of Florida took the bull by the horns as we see here.

The illegal ( since 1987) signs are all coming down.It is the only thing they understand:Their wallet.
.

Florida has decided to finally protect the 2nd Amendment at the state level and eliminate onerous restrictions that many municipalities and communities have enacted against gun rights.Gun Rights Win in Florida: State Law Will End Local Restrictions

Starting October 1st, any public official who passes or enforces gun regulations below the state level faces a $5,000 personal fine and could even be removed from office by the governor for enacting or enforcing local gun laws.

[sdprof]

Before the feds could ever start taking the states and lower level governments to task for violating 2A, the feds must themselves stop violating it. And that's not likely to happen in our lifetimes.

But every inch, foot, yard that we gain back is still a win. At the local, state or federal level.

[230RN]

armoredman said,

That section will be misconstrued and abused until the feds do something that only Florida has done - add penalties. So far, abusing the public trust and violating the Constitution seems to carry no penalty - let them be sued in open court by citizens for violations of their oath of office. At the very least, they'll spend to much time defending themselves to do any harm.
I know, bad idea...just a random thought.

Not that I haven't been touting that concept for years. The problem is they can pass any law they want, secure in the knowledge that if there's a constitutional challenge to it, it may take years to resolve. Or decades. And be expensive.

By then, they're usually off and retired on their fat pensions. There ought to be a constitutional ombudsman or something to stop them in their tracks, but the only one I'd think qualified to be such an ombudsman would be me.

I just did a rant on that recently, I think over at the Hawaiian 2a site, but I've mentioned it several times over the past years.

I shore do like that Florida law.... it's a start.

Terry, 230RN

[Johnny Dollar]

Yeah,you have to start somewhere. And with Florida's overwhelming GOP majority in both houses ,and take no prisonsers,stongly pro gun Gov. Rick Scott, Florida was the perfect place.

Now we need OC and then Constitutional Carry and life will be cool in Paradise.

[IA_farmboy]

I'm wondering how many died-in-the-wool hoplophobes are going to band together to attempt repeal of the second amendment.

Repealing the Second Amendment would be required but insufficient to give the federal government the constitutional power to regulate firearms. The federal government was granted certain enumerated powers and stepping too far away from those (the "necessary and proper" clause can, and has, been twisted out of proportion) is forbidden.

To me every federal law that imposes a tax, registration, or restriction on the personal possession of arms is a violation of the constitution as written and intended. I say this because I do not see any authority granted to the federal government that empowers it to regulate firearms in any way. One might argue that the interstate commerce clause empowers the federal government to impose restrictions but even if I was to accept that the federal government has stepped outside those bounds by imposing restrictions on commerce that consists entirely within a state.

Suppose there was a successful effort to repeal the Second Amendment. What would come next? Would the government be allowed to enter a home to search for weapons? Well there goes the Fourth Amendment. Would these weapons, that are obviously private property, be allowed to be taken without compensation? There goes the Fifth Amendment. Would people charged with weapons crimes still be allowed a trial by jury? What kind of sentences would be imposed for violators of these weapons laws? Do we put people in prison for three years for having the audacity to believe they can carry a weapon of self defense into city limits? There goes the Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments.

For these people to impose the weapons laws they want we'd have to toss the entire Bill of Rights into the circular file.

[therewolf]

Call them "antis", "controllers", or "reformers" our issue is the same.

Didn't Chairman Mao "wipe out"

(means mercilessly and ruthlessly slaughter)

30 million chinamen during peacetime, after

enacting "gun control" in the name of "reform"?


What we really need to be doing, however, isn't

debating and arguing with antis.

45%, that's **140,000,000+** Americans own guns.


All we have to do is get them involved. Your father, brother, son, cousin, mother, sister,

co-workers and friends; get them to join the GOA, or SAF, or NRA, or JFPO. THEN we'll

see some REAL "gun reform".

[armoredman]

Saw that MAIG TV spot on YouTube, and Bloomers was saying how we need "common sense gun reform."
I agree, eliminate all bars to lawful carry in all 50 states, and remove civil liability for justified uses of deadly physical force - no getting sued by the deceased home invader's "estate".

[JellyJar]

I had a gun that needed reforming. I took it to my gunsmith and he gave it a good talking to and now it is on the straight and narrow path again.

[Johnny Dollar]

I had a gun that needed reforming. I took it to my gunsmith and he gave it a good talking to and now it is on the straight and narrow path again.

Good to hear. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi,"Training is not the important thing.It's the only thing." Glad to hear your guns have sat up and are taking serious notice.

But still,watch those devils carefully! We cannot be too careful.

[Selena]

I have a sidearm I reformed from 38 Super to 9mm. Major mistake but luckily not irreversible.