AK47 - why do people repeat ridiculous info?

[Nickotym]

Had my ak47 out with an acquaintance today. He said it was a cool rifle and is more accurate than he thought it would be. Then he threw me for a loop and said, " The cool thing about them is they could use our ammo in the AK47, but we could not use AK47 ammo in our rifles."

I don't know of any US/NATO ammo that is safe to use in place of 7.62X39. Correct me if I am wrong, but this kind of stuff drives me batty.

[Aaryq]

If I'm not mistaken, he picked it up from a documentary about the Soviets using a 125mm Rifled Gun in their tanks and NATO using a 120mm Gun, which by the rifling allowed such things (though the way the Ruskies desidgned their tanks I would not want to be the unlucky sod who had to try that out on the battlefield).
That's what I heard, but your friend is bloody insane because 7.62x39mm came out in 1947ish and the 5.56x45 didn't come out until the late 50's early 60's. So chronoligcally, it's out of whack and logically, it's insane.

[swgunner]

I heard that was Russian .51 cal machineguns and they could chamber our .50 cal rounds but their rounds would cause severe over pressure in ours. This is the only thing I have ever heard on the subject.

[Carl N. Brown]

There is no compatibility between NATO 7.62x51mm and AK 7.62x39mm.

Wikipedia on the .50 BMG and Russian 12.7x108mm points out:

Incorrect interchangability claims

It is often claimed that the US .50 BMG (12.7×99mm NATO) cartridge can be fired in Soviet/Russian 12.7×108mm machine guns. The 12.7×108mm was even called a “.51-caliber.” This often claimed interchangeability is an assumption made from the 12.7×108mm being listed as “.511-caliber” in US intelligence publications during the Vietnam War. The bullets used for both cartridges are ~.51 inches in diameter, but upon firing the bullet is shaped and forced by the barrel and propellant to actually "squeeze" down to the .50 diameter, and engage the rifling of the barrel. Despite the similar bullet diameters, the dimensional differences between the two cartridges would prevent either being correctly chambered in a firearm designed for the other.

Base diameter of .50 BMG (12.7×99mm NATO ) cartridge is .804 inch.
Base diameter of Russian 12.7x108mm cartridge is .854 inch.
Does not look like a good fit.


In WWII the Brits perpetrated the hoax that British 9mm for the Sten SMG and HiPower pistol was not compatible with 9mm Parabellum, but German 9mm could be fired in British 9mm guns if necessary. That was a hoax to scare Germans into avoiding captured British ammo.

[The Real Sarge]

One of the things I have noticed during the past ten years or so......since the Saiga invasion....it has confused many of the non gun folks. They see Saiga's shoot 5.45/5.56/7.62X39/7.62X51/410 Gauge/20 Gauge/12 Gauge.....looks like the same gun to them.
Then you have all the AR platform uppers.
Throw in the misinformation on various TV shows....media in general.
Sure I can see how folks get confused.

[ClickClickD'oh]

"The cool thing about them is they could use our ammo in the AK47, but we could not use AK47 ammo in our rifles."

I've been hearing this bogus claim for years, and often times from people who should know better.

But, then again.. the AK is prone to exaggerated claims. We all "know" they can have their chambers filled with sand then fire just fine, they never jam and they never need to be cleaned...

[KodiakBeer]

I thought this referred to 762x39 and 762x51, but even that would be backwards. And of course, you'd only get one shot because you'd then have split 762x39 brass stuck inside your 762x51 chamber. The over-sized chamber might result in nothing more than a squib stuck in your barrel anyway.

[Lanius]

One time, Brits in Afghanistan recieved Russian 12.7x108 ammo instead of the .50 BMG. Some crooked contractor..

I think some of the ammo fired, but it ruined the guns and they needed repair.

There should be a news story about that.

[21H40]

My favorite AK myth I was told (by people who should know better, acting as SME's for Army training) was that the 7.62mm fired by the AK is "the exact same" as the round used by our M240 (7.62x51) AND an AK47 round will completely penetrate 18" brick wall from 300 meters away and kill the poor Soldier taking cover.

The great thing about talking about guns is (just like the internet) anyone who speaks is an expert. Really.

[Selena]

Hi 21,

The great thing about talking about guns is (just like the internet) anyone who speaks is an expert.

FWIW- and you make quote me- I don't know a darn thing about AK's or an SKS.

[lee n. field]

" The cool thing about them is they could use our ammo in the AK47, but we could not use AK47 ammo in our rifles."

I don't know of any US/NATO ammo that is safe to use in place of 7.62X39. Correct me if I am wrong, but this kind of stuff drives me batty.

That's "sorta" true, with respect to 9mm Makarov and .380.

[The Real Sarge]

I was told one of my Saigas was not a "real" AK47 because it didn't have wood furniture.

[bigfatdave]

no, it isn't a "real" ak47 because it is a semiauto clone

[ShadoWalker]

People do the same thing with handgun calibers. 9mm only tickles but a 45 ACP will knock a bad guy to his knee's or tear an arm off.

Mostly it's because people like to sound like they know what they are talking about. They will actively reject refutations of their ignorance either because they don't want to look stupid or because they refuse to believe whoever told them the information originally could be wrong.

[The Real Sarge]

Semi Auto not an AK? Sorry to break the news to you but there were many semi only AK's made and distributed over the years. Chinese and Russian both. But I do agree to a point there Mr. Dave.....the first letter in AK means Automatic

[Selena]

Автомат Калашникова? I'm not sure that automatic (device?) would have the same context in Russian as it would English. But, I don't know much about the Russian language either.

[KodiakBeer]

It has the same context in Russian as in English.

Semi-Auto is Samozaryadnyj, as in Samozaryadnyj Karabin Sistemy Simonova (SKS - Semi-Auto Carbine System Simonova). Simonov is the designer.

[21H40]

I don't know a darn thing about AK's or an SKS.

Selena - this is the interweb. Don't let ignorance stop you from acting like an expert!


Actually, one of the many things I like about GRM is many of the regular commentators have actual (non-simulated) experiences or factual data that they reference. It's an odd thing to see on the internet, but I like it.

[bigfatdave]

TRS, I was mostly being a wiseass, don't get too worked up

[The Real Sarge]

LOL....I know that....Lord I was far far from being worked up.

[Cash4Gold]

I've heard something similar with soviets using 82mm mortars vs. our 81mm. Although I have never heard anything like that regarding small arms.

[Burt Blade]

I am sure a simliar rumor made the rounds of the encampments of Roman Legions, about the enemy returning Legion catapult stones. Soldiers do expend much air swapping rumors.

If we could power a turbine with G.I. Balloon Juice, we could light up the Las Vegas Strip for free.

[Pat McCoy]

Cash4Gold has it right. Fin stabilized rounds, so no problems with rifling.

[nalioth]

GREAT GOOGLEY GOSHEN!

I just found a rich vein of "ridiculous" in the comments regarding this article: Russia’s Designing a Deadlier AK-47 - Gizmodo

[3fgburner]

In the "Rumors from people who should know better" department: I actually heard the "AKs will fire M16 ammo but not vice-versa" canard from my first-year ROTC instructor in '74. Major M was an MP, who'd actually done a couple tours in Vietnam and still believed it.