Why citizens go armed

[Old Grump]

Oh! I agreed until I got to this.

"Only our complicit agreement to obey whatever laws congress passes and the President signs into law over our objections."

So when they pass a law that say hand in your firearms that is what you are going to do? When they pass a law that say shoot gays on sigh that is what you are going to do?

I believe that the very principle of laws is that bad laws must not be obeyed. But lets be honest it is easier to prevent than cure, so why the heck when we are given the opportunity to object we are to busy, it has nothing to do with me, I can live with it... and 10,000 excuses.

If we do not protect our rights who is going to do it for us?

You don't know me yet or you wouldn't have written that last line. I stand with Capt. John Parker, commander, Lexington Militia when he said "Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."

Congress can pass it and the president can sign it but I don't stop fighting just because most panty wearing anti-gunners do.

Fair weather gun owners who are willing to go along and compromise in order to ensure their guns are safe are our most dangerous enemies because they allow little steps infringing our rights cheerfully as long as their favorite gun is exempt.

[armoredman]

Explain how a carry law is constitutional.

Crimefree, were you paying attention, or do you rant on autopilot? Watch closely...Arizona laws state that it is illegal to carry a firearm openly or concealed to commit a crime...IT IS NOT ILLEGAL AND RECOGNIZED AS PART OF THE AZ AND USA CONSTITUTION TO CARRY A FIREARM OPENLY OR CONCEALED WITHOUT NEED FOR PERMIT, LICENSE, REGISTRATION, ETC.
That's how a "carry law" can be Constitutional, that it recognizes a Constitutional Right!

It seems you want members here to jump up and state they are going out to break the law today - did you just start work with ATFE, or is this your second year?

[Crimefree]

Perhaps, but the drover who abuses the cattle in his care may be doing his job as he sees it but that does not make the cattle to blame when one retaliates and hooks him nor does it give the drover any cause to complain. The universal soldier theory applies to civilian workers just as well as military.

Since you have no idea of my personal level of activity I will dismiss your accusatory theme as a matter of style and not a personal reflection on me.

You have a habit of twisting words and then accusing people of what they have not done. I will in future not bother thanks. I do not know how to make my comments less personal since it was not personal at all.

Just so we understand each other please QUOTE where I made any claim or suggestion on "your" activity or activism. Not even implied.

There is little point in shooting the messenger and if you could not be bothered to address the source of the problem and find excuses more attractive then the problem cannot be fixed. And that is why firearm owners are losing this fight. Can't see the wood for the trees and argue over lunch while the building is burning down. And that is a personal comment.

This is not.

There is absolutely no argument that this fight is being lost by firearm owners. That is irrefutable yet the blind will argue instead while they insist on repeating history and bludgeoning anyone who happens to point out something different.

[Crimefree]

Crimefree, were you paying attention, or do you rant on autopilot? Watch closely...Arizona laws state that it is illegal to carry a firearm openly or concealed to commit a crime...IT IS NOT ILLEGAL AND RECOGNIZED AS PART OF THE AZ AND USA CONSTITUTION TO CARRY A FIREARM OPENLY OR CONCEALED WITHOUT NEED FOR PERMIT, LICENSE, REGISTRATION, ETC.
That's how a "carry law" can be Constitutional, that it recognizes a Constitutional Right!

It seems you want members here to jump up and state they are going out to break the law today - did you just start work with ATFE, or is this your second year?

Do not put words I have not said or claimed in my mouth to try to shoot me down. Your attempt at moral blackmail is noted as well as the puerile attempt to discredit with derogatory remarks.

You are wasting your time with personal comments and all it proves is that you are morally bankrupt and have nothing of sense to say.

Explain how a carry law is constitutional. I DID NOT ASK IF IT WAS THE LAW, LEGAL or ILLEGAL in any state, town or country. Do you need to read the constitution again to remind yourself of what it says? Is your constitution different and says this right can be infringed. Do get a dictionary and look up infringed.

Oh!! I know we can still own guns so it is constitutional. Firearm organisations told us that it was or there was nothing they can do.

None of that makes it constitutional unless "we the people" are willing to give up our rights. Have you given up yours? Are you fighting to save the guns and laws and have no value for your rights? Must be you try to give me a law lesson when I asked about rights and infringement thereof..

Now can you pay attention and try to comprehend.

[Crimefree]

An Affirmation to bear arms

http://praag.co.uk/columns/david-all...bear-arms.html

A wake up call?

[Selena]

There is little point in shooting the messenger and if you could not be bothered to address the source of the problem and find excuses more attractive then the problem cannot be fixed.

Once again, you have idea none of my level of activity on the subject, yet you claim I have not bothered. On top of it you have the bloody nerve to accuse me of twisting words. Go in peace, I am finished with you. But be aware I fear for your fate on Judgment Day.

[pmeisel]

But be aware I fear for your fate on Judgment Day.

Don't fear. There's plenty of room in Hell and some must populate it. Might as well be that id-10t.

[Crimefree]

You don't know me yet or you wouldn't have written that last line. I stand with Capt. John Parker, commander, Lexington Militia when he said "Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."

Congress can pass it and the president can sign it but I don't stop fighting just because most panty wearing anti-gunners do.

Fair weather gun owners who are willing to go along and compromise in order to ensure their guns are safe are our most dangerous enemies because they allow little steps infringing our rights cheerfully as long as their favorite gun is exempt.

Your are right I don't know you but I read one or two of your posts and have a pretty good idea of what you stand for. But I'll also say the statement was a generalisation and as such few protect their rights.

Your assessment of removal of rights is absolutely correct. Most know of the slippery slope and boiling frogs but consider themselves to smart for that. Yeah! Right! All it takes is the first step the rest follow, it is just a matter of time.

In 1903 Brittan passed a law requiring those who wanted to carry a handgun to buy a licence. It was low cost and available to anyone be they insane, child, criminal... at any post office. It established parliaments right to pass such laws and was virtually uncontested. No problem we can still own firearms...

As for anti-gunners your statement is somewhat myopic. 11% of the US population support less restrictive laws, 89% of the population supports GUN CONTROL in one form or the other. Now does anyone think there is not a problem ;-) when close to
70% of firearm owners are willing to ACCEPT gun control and will because once on the slippery slope... And all they will do is argue over how much to ACCEPT.

Nobody fights or objects to what they ACCEPT. Nobody. They will tear down all who attempt to interfere with the safety they perceive they have bought. Who has not been at the receiving end of their moral blackmail, platitudes and outright lies?

Nowhere in the world has appeasement, collaboration and capitulation gained anything but defeat and the utmost contempt from the oppressor. Yet this is what hey preach... be reasonable... I am. I listen, I examine and if it is wrong I say so and why.

[Crimefree]

Don't fear. There's plenty of room in Hell and some must populate it. Might as well be that id-10t.

Money = debt.

[Crimefree]

Once again, you have idea none of my level of activity on the subject, yet you claim I have not bothered. On top of it you have the bloody nerve to accuse me of twisting words. Go in peace, I am finished with you. But be aware I fear for your fate on Judgment Day.

I do not have the time to dance on eggshells. I asked you to quote and I see you did not or point out in the quote where it was addressed to you. Does that tell you something?

Are you so puffed up with yourself that I am supposed to guess?

If quibbling over irrelevance is important to you and what I had said was not so be it.

[armoredman]

Once again you ignore the facts,

Explain how a carry law is constitutional. I DID NOT ASK IF IT WAS THE LAW, LEGAL or ILLEGAL in any state, town or country. Do you need to read the constitution again to remind yourself of what it says? Is your constitution different and says this right can be infringed. Do get a dictionary and look up infringed.

, the fact being that AZ law doesn't infringe on peoples rights, but you insist that you are perfectly correct with no chance of intellectual discourse.

You are wasting your time with personal comments and all it proves is that you are morally bankrupt and have nothing of sense to say.

I, sir, believe that I do have higher personal morals and standards than you have demonstrated here, and you violate them with your insistence on both breaking the breaking the law as currently stands, and attempting to inveigle others to do so. You'll look good in orange, inmate. Welcome to the ignore list, feel free to rant in peace.

[Selena]

Don't fear. There's plenty of room in Hell and some must populate it. Might as well be that id-10t.

Don't get me started. He reminds me much of a hired hand my brother had for two days. I tried to give him a bit of advice and was told he didn't need machine operation help from a "chica estúpida." A half hour later he managed to back over a low wall and put the tractor into the retention pond. I would have pointed out that as estúpida I may be, I never once buried a machine in manure, 15 foot and rising. since his macho was showing I thought it best not to mention that fact.

Which goes back to why citizens go armed. The same reason a citizen might carry a pair of pliers as they come in handy when you get tangled in a barbed wire fence. A good knife when the tie strings on the feed supplement bags just won't come undone. Nose plugs when you have to hook a chain to a tractor that's in over the top of your rubber boots. And nothing will replace a firearm when the animal by-product hits the air conditioning.

[armoredman]

Well said, ma'am.

[Selena]

Well said, ma'am.

Thank you sir, even a chica estúpida has her moments.

Too bad there is no emoticon for a curtsy.