Zimmerman Trial Outcome Poll

[bruno2]

As I have been following the case like many others here. I am getting the notion that Zimmerman's attorneys are expecting a criminal trial to be the outcome of the new state attorneys investigation. We all know there has been a lot of public opinion and menacing of Zimmerman flying around. So far I have no reason to believe he has broken the law or that there are any grounds to convict him. I am sure we will see more evidence as this moves closer to trial. I would like for members to weigh in concerning their predictions of what a trial could bring as well as give a brief summary on why they think that. If you feel that the media exposure and such has already convicted him say so or if you feel the pressure from the demonstrators and the fear of riots will play a roll then by all means chime in.

[TCB in TN]

If the evidence and witnesses show Martin was attacking him (as it appears) then I do not see him being convicted of anything in an actual trial.

If it does go to trial and he is not convicted then I do believe we will see some severe civil unrest.

[bruno2]

I dont think they will be able to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt. Mainly b/c the original investigation was supposedly botched and also Zimmerman is the only witness still alive. We have heard of a couple of witnesses,but, not one that has seen the entire event from start to finish.

Also I believe if there are riots they will be on a small scale and only some badparts of town will be affected.

[Johnny Dollar]

I voted not guilty of manslaughter.That there will be trial is still a large assumption.

However, with the evidence I've seen presented to this point ,IMO,Zimmerman felt that severe bodily harm was imminent ,including the possibility of his own death.

Therefore, shooting Trayvon Martin was justifiable Self Defense.

[ants]

I think we're missing something here.

Go back to posts in the closed thread offered by TheSecond and fiddletown regarding Florida process, wherein it was explained that a charged person makes his pre-trial motion to dismiss as a justfiable use of force, and the matter and evidence go to a separate hearing before the judge where he/she makes a determination.

When Z's lawyers seem to be prepared for 'court' they are probably talking about the separate hearing prior to a criminal trial. If you ask me, THAT is where they earn their money.

With a favorable self-defense hearing, there is no murder verdict of guilty or not guilty because there is no trial. A favorable ruling is passed back to the court and the matter ends as a justifiable act with a successful motion to dismiss.





So the interesting poll, in my view, would regard the CIVIL trial. We need the input of fiddletown and thesecond again, but in my tiny little experience in life it seems clear that evidence is held in a completely different light in a civil matter. That is where such phrases as "establish intent" have a whole different meaning in legal language. That's where leaving the car after telling 911 that 'those ...holes always get away' establishes intent that has great meaning (and damage) in a civil trial, even though inconsequential in a criminal matter.

And that is a big lesson to you and me. We endeavor to protect ourselves and our communities, but need to be a whole lot smarter about how we do it so we don't have the appearance of establishing some unintended intent.

[And that's why I often shake my head when I read macho gung-ho rambo posts on these forums. "I'm not gonna hesitate, I'm gonna stand my ground and kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out." That sentiment may be in your heart, but it seems smarter to keep the bravisimo off the keyboard.]

[P5 Guy]

I like pie, that's why I'm going to Yoder's. They make the best pies on the west coast of Florida.

I have a bad feeling that GZ will be railroaded, whether he deserves it or not and not by the state, DoJ will be the engineer, and conductor on that train.

[Selena]

Hi Johnny,

However, with the evidence I've seen presented to this point ,IMO,Zimmerman felt that severe bodily harm was imminent ,including the possibility of his own death.

You forget, the legal system is not about providing justice but the illusion of justice. With the hue and cry anything but a very public trial and at the least a token sentence would pop the illusion like a soap bubble in a porcupine's bath.

[rainbowbob]

Convincing evidence corroborating Zimmerman's self-defense claims will lead to a no-trial...


...whereupon all of the media outlets, race-baiters, and general public calling for his head will profusely apologize and vow never again to manufacture "evidence" and try someone in the press merely for cheap political purposes, self-aggrandizement, or personal gain...


Hahahahahaha! I guess I'm a week late for April Fool's.

[JEStucker]

As long as it's taking the focus off the failing economy, the moron in the White House, and rising fuel prices, then I'm pretty sure it's going to continue to be a media fiasco and a bunch of BS designed to separate the country.

He's going to get railroaded, regardless of whatever "facts" make it to any trial or litigation, just for the simple fact that a "white" man shot a black teenager.

So, What's your favorite kind of pie, I happen to like Pecan...

[pmeisel]

I like cherry pie best, but my wife makes a mean chocolate pie as well, her mother's recipe.

It will depend a lot on the lawyers and how they handle the facts, not all of which we are thoroughly aware of.

I wouldn't put a lot on any outcome. But I'll bet a beer with any of y'all that will be passing through my area, either side of the bet, just to be sporting and sociable.

[Johnny Dollar]

So, What's your favorite kind of pie, I happen to like Pecan...

Lemon Meringue at the wonderful Miami Royal Castle Hamburger chain in the 1950's, one on every other downtown corner,open 24/7.

Wonderful pie, in a wonderful time to be a child in a big city.

Miami was the Magic City then.



Miami Beach,1955

I wouldn't put a lot on any outcome. But I'll bet a beer with any of y'all that will be passing through my area, either side of the bet, just to be sporting and sociable.

OK.

[cambeul41]

I took "Not guilty of manslaughter" to mean any outcome other than "guilty." And I cannot at this stage see him being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

On the other hand, a large piece of hot Dutch apple pie under a huge serving of French vanilla ice cream sounds good.

[Loosedhorse]

And I cannot at this stage see him being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is something between no trial and not guilty: judge granting motion for summary judgment.

It's a dark horse, but a pretty one.

[cambeul41]

There is something between no trial and not guilty: judge granting motion for summary judgment.

Yes, I understand that. But the poll question does not include the word "found." Perhaps I was unclear as to my meaning. Is this better?

I took "Not guilty of manslaughter" to mean any outcome other than his being found guilty.

My intent was to include the possibility of the "judge granting motion for summary judgment."

[HOWARD J]

This country has gone African for over 3 years--I will be very suprised
if Zimmerman is not put on trial & if put on trial found not guilty.

[spwenger]

...I believe the state will have trouble taking the case to trial.

(I prefer apple pie and peach pie, with the fruit barely cooked and without the tapioca thickener.)

[KodiakBeer]

I voted not guilty, but...

There is one aspect of this that might tilt even a thinking jury. Under the Stand Your Ground statute, one might characterize Trayvon Martin as somebody being followed and watched by a strange guy and thus be perfectly legal in verbally challenging this stranger.

Now, what if the stranger reaches back and puts his hand on a gun? Are you then being threatened and does that open the door to a physical assault?

Of course, Trayvon Martin isn't here to say that happened, but if Zimmerman did that at any point and admitted to it, then things get very muddy indeed.

[Guns and more]

Zimmerman will be tried and found guilty. Manslaughter.
The story is now bigger than the truth.
Remember O.J.? The jury will disregard the evidence and come to a verdict that they want or need.

[TallPine]

Banana cream

[bruno2]

I do like cream pies Tallpine. There is an Amish bakery out where I live that makes banana cream and coconut cream that you would committ a crime over.

[rmgill]

Aren't we missing a few data points for what is or is not grounds for a criminal charge at this point?

[rondog]

Back to the pie thing - IS there an offer of free pie? And what kind(s)?

[KodiakBeer]

Miami was the Magic City then.

Methinks this new show is worth a thread. There's plenty of gunplay and ethical questions to keep it on topic. I like the show and will have some coconut cream pie in its honor. Or, perhaps Key Lime..? Now, I'm confused and will have both.

[Johnny Dollar]

Methinks this new show is worth a thread. There's plenty of gunplay and ethical questions to keep it on topic. I like the show and will have some coconut cream pie in its honor. Or, perhaps Key Lime..? Now, I'm confused and will have both.

Cool! I lived through Miami,1959.
Have both is the winner.

A time that will not be seen again.
So many bittersweet memories.

But,we must not digress. It kills the soul.

[bruno2]

Aren't we missing a few data points for what is or is not grounds for a criminal charge at this point?

We discussed this in the thread that got locked extensively. We whipped that dead horse thoroughly to the point everybody started bickering and it was closed.

This assuming the DA will decide in favor of a criminal trial. Rather its over preponderance of evidence or just enough to get it into court to satisfy the mob.