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Thread: Bloomberg attacks Stand Your Ground

  1. #26
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    I'll repost this.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...413?view=small
    Deborah Charles, "Most Americans back gun lobby, right to use deadly force", Reuters, 13 Apr 2012.

    ... The online survey showed that 68 percent, or two out of three respondents, had a favorable opinion of the NRA, which starts its annual convention in St. Louis, Missouri, on Friday. Eighty-two percent of Republicans saw the gun lobbying group in a positive light as well as 55 percent of Democrats....
    Majorities supported right-to-carry and use of lethal force in self-defense "both in homes and public places".

    Bloomberg's POV is a minority point of view.
    Cogito me cogitare; ergo, cogito me esse.

  2. #27
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    Carl, exactly the cartoon I was thinking of.
    Paul
    People have some respect for the complexity of technology. But almost every ignorant fool thinks he understands money and economics.

  3. #28
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    If this surprised anyone, then I advise them to look into mental health couseling.
    Resident Liberal

  4. #29
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    The Truth About Stand Your Ground Laws

    Unusual for the Huffington Post, but the article below does an excellent job of explaining Stand Your Ground vs. Self Defense laws, and how the media continues to get everything about the Trayvon Martin case wrong.

    There are media outlets that are using this case as an excuse for a big push to repeal both Stand Your Ground AND Castle Doctrine laws – I know Chris Matthews has stated such (“we need to get rid of these Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws”).

    The Truth About "Stand Your Ground" Laws
    Under any version of the facts, Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law did not apply in the Trayvon Martin incident. If Zimmerman pursued a confrontation with Martin, then Zimmerman was an attacker and cannot claim SYG. If Zimmerman's account is true that he was on the ground and Martin was on top of him, then retreat was impossible, so there would be no duty to retreat anyway. A victim in such a situation can use deadly force, but only if he reasonably believes he is being attacked with deadly force.

    For those of us in VA, we have neither Stand Your Ground or Castle Doctrine law – as such, VA courts use case law, of which VA has over 400 years, and VA case law is stronger than the recently defeated Castle Doctrine bill introduced in VA.

    ‘Castle doctrine’ bill fails with help from Va. gun-rights group
    At the urging of a gun-rights group, Virginia’s House and Senate on Wednesday rejected the so-called castle doctrine bill, which was intended to protect someone from being sued for fatally shooting an intruder.

    “We kind of led the effort on terminating the bill,” said league President Philip Van Cleave. “It might have been a step backward.”
    It only becomes class warfare when the working class decides to fight back.
    When they don't, it simply becomes a case of economic genocide.
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  5. #30
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by pmeisel View Post
    Actually a lot of New Yorkers are so intellectually handicapped by their own NY-centric-ness that they admire him. Good reason to stay away.

    I think I'll start a rock band when I grow up -- since the Dead Kennedys and the Dead Schembechler names are already taken, perhaps it can be the Dead Bloombergs... no, that doesn't sound right. Perhaps Kennedy Schembechler?
    guns against illegal mayors.
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  6. #31
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    GAIM, love it.

    No efforts to overturn SYG or Castle out here that I know of, other than the usual fringe lunatics.
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

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  7. #32
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    Are we taking seriously the opinion of a man who cannot tell the difference between Goodies headache powder and cocaine, and who polluted the jury pool against the student nurse tourist caught with an out-of-state carry permit and pistol, by publicly stating that the least of her problems was her out-of-state permitted pistol because she was caught with cocaine in her purse (Goodies headache powder).
    Cogito me cogitare; ergo, cogito me esse.

  8. #33
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    Unusual for the Huffington Post, but the article below does an excellent job of explaining Stand Your Ground vs. Self Defense laws.
    Hufpo gets stuff right, just not gun stuff.

    And how the media continues to get everything about the Trayvon Martin case wrong.
    They haven't been reporting Trayvon alive, last I heard. That's at least one thing right.

    There are media outlets that are using this case as an excuse for a big push to repeal both Stand Your Ground AND Castle Doctrine laws – I know Chris Matthews has stated such (“we need to get rid of these Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws”).
    And Chris Matthews has private security. He's hardly the sort of man who would need to protect himself.

    The Truth About "Stand Your Ground" Laws
    Under any version of the facts, Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law did not apply in the Trayvon Martin incident. If Zimmerman pursued a confrontation with Martin, then Zimmerman was an attacker and cannot claim SYG.
    As I've maintained, Zimmerman went and sparked the incident by pursuing Trayvon contrary to what he was being advised.

    If Zimmerman's account is true that he was on the ground and Martin was on top of him, then retreat was impossible, so there would be no duty to retreat anyway. A victim in such a situation can use deadly force, but only if he reasonably believes he is being attacked with deadly force.
    I doubt Zimmerman's story because it just seems far too ridiculous to believe that Trayvon went out to get snacks, ran when a fat guy started chasing him, and then came back later in order to attack Zimmerman, and then yelled for help. He was then somehow winning the fight when he was facedown on his back and shot execution style.

    For those of us in VA, we have neither Stand Your Ground or Castle Doctrine law – as such, VA courts use case law, of which VA has over 400 years, and VA case law is stronger than the recently defeated Castle Doctrine bill introduced in VA.
    Our Virginia case law for DGU is very strong. I actually was rather surprised by the VCDL's decision to fight the proposed Castle Doctrine because it would supplant our great common law body with a weaker statutory law body.

    ‘Castle doctrine’ bill fails with help from Va. gun-rights group
    At the urging of a gun-rights group, Virginia’s House and Senate on Wednesday rejected the so-called castle doctrine bill, which was intended to protect someone from being sued for fatally shooting an intruder.
    I think they just throw the case out of court or refuse trial in most shooting lawsuits.

    “We kind of led the effort on terminating the bill,” said league President Philip Van Cleave. “It might have been a step backward.”
    Why can't we have strict gun-rights people like that running and operating the NRA? I wish that Maryland had the VA gun laws and common law body.
    _____________

    My pet theory is that Zimmerman pursued Martin on racial profiling grounds. Martin attempted to escape, but was ultimately unsuccessful, deigning to humor him and just listen to what he wanted. Zimmerman then attempted to detain Martin and revealed his weapon. Martin attacked Zimmerman in an attempt at escape and shouted for help. Zimmerman got the upper hand and shot the youth executioner style. Zimmerman provoked the incident and therefore is a murderer.
    Resident Liberal

  9. #34
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    And Chris Matthews has private security. He's hardly the sort of man who would need to protect himself.
    Yeah, but can you imagine the workman's comp if one of them is hurt and due to SYG not able to sue for pain and suffering?

  10. #35
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    I doubt Zimmerman's story because it just seems far too ridiculous to believe..
    NBC released cell phone pics of what we're told is Mr Zimmerman's head immediately after the alleged attack, showing running blood and wounds. Id say his story, as strange as it may be, seems to become more believable with each released piece of evidence.
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

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  11. #36
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    NBC released cell phone pics of what we're told is Mr Zimmerman's head immediately after the alleged attack, showing running blood and wounds. Id say his story, as strange as it may be, seems to become more believable with each released piece of evidence.
    I agree completely. And BTW, it was ABC,that released the pics. They have been covering the story objectively.

    NBC on the other hand, will be doing nothing positive for Zimmerman. Through their cable arm, MSNBC and their henchmen and women,Sharpton ,Schultz,Matthews,O'Donnell, Maddow, et al, they are doing their level best to hang him in a public square.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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  12. #37
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    Hufpo gets stuff right, just not gun stuff.
    Yeah...that's why when you click on a story 'bout this case, you're greeted with a huge banner across the top of the page with a picture of...a 13-yr. old kid!

    As I've maintained, Zimmerman went and sparked the incident by pursuing Trayvon contrary to what he was being advised.
    Good thing you weren't on the stand today!
    Mr. Blunt...can you please tell the court why you used the word "sparked" to describe the incident...do you have any proof about who started the fight?
    Mr. Blunt...do you have any proof that my client continued to "pursue" Mr. Martin AFTER he was advised it was not required?


    I doubt Zimmerman's story because it just seems far too ridiculous to believe that Trayvon went out to get snacks, ran when a fat guy started chasing him...
    Mr. Blunt...can you please tell the court how it is possible for an overweight, non-athlete to catch a 17-yr. old wide receiver?

    My pet theory is that Zimmerman pursued Martin on racial profiling grounds.
    Mr. Blunt...would you please tell the court why you did not use the word "racial" in the affidavit?

    We could go on...
    It only becomes class warfare when the working class decides to fight back.
    When they don't, it simply becomes a case of economic genocide.
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  13. #38
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    Actually a lot of New Yorkers are so intellectually handicapped by their own NY-centric-ness that they admire him. Good reason to stay away.
    Well, NYC is the center of the universe.

    Just ask any New Yorker who lives down here in Florida
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  14. #39
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    When I was in grad school, in a class of 100 or so we had about 20 from Boston and NY, mostly NY. The rest of us just couldn't wait until they could go back.....
    Paul
    People have some respect for the complexity of technology. But almost every ignorant fool thinks he understands money and economics.

  15. #40
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    The arrogance and gun obsession of Bloomberg reminds me of another big city mayor, also arrogant and also obsessed with guns:
    Wikipedia- Richard Daley, Jr.
    "After Mick Dumke, a reporter for the Chicago Reader, questioned the effectiveness of the city's handgun ban, Daley picked up a rifle with a bayonet from a table of confiscated weapons and told him, "If I put this up your butt, you'll find out how effective it is.""
    Where is that arrogant, gun-obsessed mayor now?
    Cogito me cogitare; ergo, cogito me esse.

  16. #41
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    Just ask any New Yorker who lives down here in Florida. Mark Dido
    New York City is the center of the Universe!

    JD,Ridgewood,New Jersey,15 miles from Nirvana!

    Any questions?
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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  17. #42
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    JD, you are warped. Nice, fun, but warped.
    Paul
    People have some respect for the complexity of technology. But almost every ignorant fool thinks he understands money and economics.

  18. #43
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    Reminder: Ridgewood Code Chapter 221-1: The hours for the commercial operation of power tools including landscaping equipment are 7:30am to 6:00pm Monday to Friday and 9:00am to 1:00pm on Saturday. No use is permitted on Sunday. (Ordinance #2772)
    ROFL!

  19. #44
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    Remind me, when I am rich, to buy a place there just to use loud landscaping tools after hours -- then, when cited, I'll use a few thousand dollars to buy off the entire city council. And get them to pass some other outrageous law......
    Paul
    People have some respect for the complexity of technology. But almost every ignorant fool thinks he understands money and economics.

  20. #45
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    when I am rich, to buy a place there just to use loud landscaping tools after hours
    I'm just wondering how they would have reacted to some of my uncle's "experiments." Especially the multi-fuel turbine he built that woke up the cats in the house 15 miles away.

  21. #46
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    One of my cousins still lives there. Lovely place.
    A little strict as you see!
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

    'Harry Callahan' Magnum Force 1973

  22. #47
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    Johnny Dollar Said:
    New York City is the center of the Universe!

    JD,Ridgewood,New Jersey,15 miles from Nirvana!

    Any questions?
    __________________
    Ridgewood?

    Rich kid, huh?

    I grew up in Passaic. Couldn't get out of there fast enough!
    PRC (AW) USN (Ret) 1973 - 1995
    "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"; The oath I took doesn't have an expiration date.

  23. #48
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    .. he feels empowered to extend his rule nationwide:
    According to the New York Times, in 2011 NYPD conducted warrantless stop-and-frisk on almost 686,000 people in New York City. The vast majority, almost 90%, were free to go after their Fourth Amendment rights were violated without probable cause.
    Hell, the TSA does that every day, and we tolerate it.

    Bloomberg attacks Stand Your Ground
    I wonder if he'd like to give up HIS armed bodyguards?

  24. #49
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    Ridgewood?

    Rich kid, huh?

    I grew up in Passaic. Couldn't get out of there fast enough!
    We were almost certainly close to being the poorest family in town,Mark, in the late 1940's. Not everyone from Ridgewood was rich.

    But Ridgewood is wiithout doubt,one of America's wealthiest towns.

    Here are the top 25 wealthiest cities in the United States per Money Magazine.Ridgewood,New Jersey ranks 15th.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

    'Harry Callahan' Magnum Force 1973

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