Bloody pic of Zimmerman's head released: prosecutor could be charged

[CIA_ran_9/11]

http://www.examiner.com/article/game...erman-released

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...an-bloody-head

[Johnny Dollar]

Quite interesting. The problem is the deceased thug has already become a rallying cry for our "minority" population.

While running my 4 miles every night,even on mainly "safe" Miami Beach,my .45 ACP Glock 36 is ready to go at an instant.

I like the idea of breathing for several more years,the decreased thug,Trayvon,none withstanding.

Sorry.

[basicblur]

I've said right off the bat this case looks like a Duke Lacrosse team redux AFA folks jumping to conclusions and being tried in the media.

It now looks even more so as it appears we may have another Nifong in the system!

[Johnny Dollar]

It now looks even more so as it appears we may have another Nifong in the system!

Maybe. I'll try not to be a victim.

[Lanius]

Good news!

Finally.

[pmeisel]

Game changer? Maybe. Prosecutor charged? Dreaming and wishing.

[happygeek]

I see ya'll are still running with the assumption that Martin started the fight.

[TCB in TN]

I see ya'll are still running with the assumption that Martin started the fight.

I am going with what little actual evidence we have to work with. It was stated (and now somewhat verified) that Zimmerman had head wounds that support the statement that he presented. Not to mention the wet back, and the nose bleed mentioned in the police report, along with the fact that he was talking to dispatch in a effort to get officers on scene, and that in the audio it appears that he did follow the dispatches instructions (based on his discussion about where to meet the responding officers).

It was stated (by Martins side) that Martin told his girlfriend that he was going to confront Zimmerman.

Thus far no mention of any physical damage to Martin (other than the gunshot wound) has been presented, or even suggested. Which would also support Zimmerman's ascertain that he was attacked, not the opposite.

According to the talking heads (and most have a definite bias for the Martin side), the prosecutor has been made look bad during the bail hearing, and has been taken to task over the weakness of the case as was presented so far. Not to mention the fact that certain evidence was apparently left out of all the documents presented so far.

I haven't made up my mind yet, but based on what we have seen so far, I am leaning towards Zimmerman in this case. (Not to mention the involvement of Al and Louie)

[happygeek]

Thus far no mention of any physical damage to Martin (other than the gunshot wound) has been presented, or even suggested. Which would also support Zimmerman's ascertain that he was attacked, not the opposite.

Which could very well mean that Zimmerman sucks at fighting or that he pulled his gun first and Martin jumped him in self defense.

[TCB in TN]

Which could very well mean that Zimmerman sucks at fighting or that he pulled his gun first and Martin jumped him in self defense.

I guess it could, and I guess we can argue all day about it, so I will just end with Occam's Razor.... looks like a duck...... and all that!

[basicblur]

I see ya'll are still running with the assumption that Martin started the fight.

Don't know who started the fight, but I see you're still running with the assumption Zimmerman did!?
If I knew Zimmerman was innocent, I'd have already contributed to his defense fund (as soon as it's sorted out), since it sure looks like he's getting railroaded.
Since I don't know who is at fault, I'm holding off on donations - if it turns out he's innocent/not guilty, I'm probably going to shoot some money his way.

And speaking of being railroaded - I see last night, after the Sanford City Council had a 3-2 no confidence vote in the police chief way back, last night he and the city manager worked out a separation agreement, but the city council voted 3-2 to NOT accept his resignation - the mayor was the changed vote. It appears they now want an investigation to see if the police chief did anything wrong before deciding if he's done anything questionable.
I saw Charles Blow raving about the Sanford council last night - after showing signs of intelligence/an understanding of the law (must have talked to somebody in the legal system!) for one night only, he's become a real biased irritant with his reporting on this case.
I got a feeling (like Chris Matthews) some folks have had their Duke Lacrosse moment and are rethinking their rush to judgement in this case regarding Zimmerman and the police chief.

I saw the city councilwoman that confronted the lead detective way back over reports the police did not have Zimmerman's gun/clothes, etc (he told her of course they did) speaking last night. She was blasting folks for not giving the new police chief time to overhaul the department, as he'd only been at his job for ten months.

AFA the guilty party, I think most in here are just going with what we have to work with, and the more that comes out about this case, the better it looks for Zimmerman.

Even if he is guilty, it looks like he may have three bites of the apple?
1. Thrown out under SYG (I don't think it's going to apply, but it never hurts for his lawyer to ask).
2. If it happened as he said, then standard SD laws would apply.
3. Even if he is guilty (pulled the gun early in the encounter, threw the first punch, etc), since there appear to be no witnesses to who started the encounter, he could walk based on reasonable doubt.

Number 3 would really suck, but surely your parents told you life is not fair (and you should act accordingly)?

[Mr. James]

I concur wit da 'blur.

[/Johnnie Cochran]

[Loosedhorse]

I will just end with Occam's Razor.... looks like a duck

The problem is that it looks like different ducks to different people. Occam's razor does not prevent us from assuming that Martin was in fear for his life any more than it prevents us from assuming he was in a murderous rage.

However, regarding what can be proven against Z beyond reasonable doubt? A much larger razor than Occam's applies.

[happygeek]

Don't know who started the fight, but I see you're still running with the assumption Zimmerman did!?

Well Zimmerman is certianly guilty of being an idiot and starting the whole sorry thing in the first place.

What exactly was it that Martin was doing that looked so suspicious?

[armoredman]

Well Zimmerman is certianly guilty of being an idiot and starting the whole sorry thing in the first place.

What exactly was it that Martin was doing that looked so suspicious?

The assumption and question will both be answered in open court.

[Loosedhorse]

most reasonable people look at EVIDENCE to help figure out what it looks like

TCB--while I resist your implication that you are not a reasonable person , please let me know the evidence we have that suggests a conclusion regarding Martin's state of mind at the time Z shot him.

[TallPine]

It's not that way back in Europe, I blame America for this.

You don't have as many suspicious looking people in Europe ???

Maybe because I am suspicious of other people, I tend to be aware of when something I am doing - though innocently - may look suspicious.

[rcnixon]

Quote:

It now looks even more so as it appears we may have another Nifong in the system!

We have hundreds if not thousands of Nifongs in the system. Look at the various state "Innocence Project" statistics. Here in NC, the most recent case of note is the Greg Taylor case. He was convicted of murder and spent 6149 days (almost 17 years) in the penitentary based on blood spatters on his truck. His truck was parked near the place where the victim was found. The State Bureau of Inventigation's crime lab reported the spatters on the truck were blood. Too bad for Mr. Taylor that the SBI left out of the report that the blood wasn't human.

It is unfortunate that there are immunity laws that protect the criminals in prosecution and law enforcement who withold exculpatory evidence. Not only did Greg Taylor lose almost 17 years of his life, the shoddy and misfeasant (if not actually malfeasant) work by the SBI has left a murderer out on the streets. This, of course, in no way excuses the work by Greg's lawyer who left unasked the question "was the blood found human?" Was the lab tech even examined? It's too bad that lawyer can't be held responsible for his shoddy work also. I hope Greg sues the state and each of the bad actors personally, regardless of immunity, who put him in prison and receives enough compensation for him to live out his life in ease and to provide for his children and their children.

I believe that those responsible for railroading people like Greg should receive similar sentences when they get convicted of their particular crime.

[basicblur]

Well Zimmerman is certianly guilty of being an idiot...

There seems to be enough lack of common sense in this case to go around - the "idiot" door doesn't swing one way.

...and starting the whole sorry thing in the first place.

Far as I (and probably the law) am concerned, nothing was "started" 'til someone committed the first overt physical act towards the other.
If you don't understand that, it's time to get off the 'Net and read a few books covering the intricacies of SD laws, lest you find yourself in one of these situations down the road.

What exactly was it that Martin was doing that looked so suspicious?

We don't know yet - maybe throwing the first punch?
If true, I'd say that's pretty darn suspicious!

To help some folks that have trouble separating the pertinent facts from the fluff, here's a (partial list):

THINGS THAT DON'T MATTER
1. Race
2. Tea and Skittles
3. Trayvon was unarmed
4. Neighborhood watch
5. A concealed weapon
6. Hoodies
7. Following in a vehicle
8. Exiting the vehicle

THINGS THAT DO MATTER
1. Who threw the first punch?
2. At what point in the encounter did the gun come out, or was displayed?

The media loves to spend all their time/misdirection on the Things That Don't Matter list, but the law is probably only concerned with the two items on the Things That Do Matter list.

[Carl N. Brown]

....the more that comes out about this case, the better it looks for Zimmerman.

There is a reason for that.

It appears that there was a quiet investigation under way to see if Zimmerman's self-defense claim held up or if Zimmerman later contradicted himself.

The Martin family attorney decided to take the case to the court of public opinion with exaggerated incrimination of Zimmerman and exaggerated exculpation of Martin. Martin partisans came out in the media:
that self-appointed vigilante Zimmerman obsessively made 46 of the 402 911 calls from Retreat at Twin Lakes (RTL);
that Zimmerman chased down and murdered Trayvon in cold blood just because he was black;
that Trayvon was shot in the back of the head face down on the ground;
that Zimmerman was not injured;
that Trayvon was the sweet 12 year old in the pictures pasted all over the media;
that Zimmerman was this beefy 250 lb guy in his 2005 mug shot for brutally attacking a police officer;
that Zimmerman got special treatment because his father was a judge;
that his gun and shirt were not taken into evidence;
that the crime scene was not taped off and not searched for evidence;
that Zimmerman was not taken to the police station or interrogated but was allowed to walk at the scene after claiming self-defense under Stand Your Ground.

Then it comes out that all that we were told to get riled up over was either completely false, grossly exaggerated or questionable:
In the time frame of 402 calls from RTL to police, Jan 2011 to Feb 2012, Zimmerman made 13.
Zimmerman was appointed by the homeowner association as neighborhood watch captain.
According to the 911 call, Zimmerman alerted to Martin on the basis of suspicious behavior.
Zimmerman shot Trayvon after being knocked to the ground and his head pounded against the ground til it was bloody.
Trayvon was shot once in the chest then fell face down.
Police described Zimmerman at the scene as bleeding from nose and back of the head.
Trayvon was 17 years old, 6'1" and 150-160 lbs, billed himself on Twitter as a gangsta wannabe.
By 2012 Zimmerman was 5'9" 180-190 lbs; his 2005 arrest was for intervening with a plainsclothes beverage control officer who had his friend up against a wall.
Zimmerman's father was a retired Virginia magistrate (justice of the peace) with no clout in Florida.
The gun and shirt were taken into evidence by police.
The crime scene was taped off and processed for evidence within minutes of police arrival.
Zimmerman was handcuffed at the scene by officer Smith, and when officer Alaya arrived Smith had Zimmerman at gun point in custody; Zimmerman was taken to the police station and interrogated for about two hours, and was released because his story and the available evidence was consistent with a claim of self defense.

....the more that comes out about this case, the better it looks for Zimmerman.

When the original story was spun and exaggerated by lawyers and activists to make Zimmerman look as bad and unredeemably evil as possible, the emerging plain facts cannot help but look better for Zimmerman.

[TCB in TN]

TCB--while I resist your implication that you are not a reasonable person , please let me know the evidence we have that suggests a conclusion regarding Martin's state of mind at the time Z shot him.

Actually we have some pretty good evidence as to where Mr. Zimmerman's state of mind was, or at least what he was doing only 2 minutes before the shooting. Zimmerman was thinking about where to meet the police officers who were supposed to be responding. In fact his stated concern was that the officer get there quickly so that Martin would not get away. Now there are exceptions to everything but it is not that often that we have documented interaction (audio even) like that.

Further more I am sure that there are many genius criminals out in the world, but I would imagine that most don't just up and call the cops right before they kill someone. That is unless Zimmerman is a lot smarter than many folks on here profess to think he is? (Sorry you can't argue he is an idiot AND a genius)

Again we don't have a lock on exactly what happened but I feel pretty comfortable that Occam resides on this side of the fence (based on the facts that we currently have).

[Apple a Day]

You don't have as many suspicious looking people in Europe ???

Got some hairy women, though.

Today, for example. I behaved very suspiciously.

Didja get shot? No? Sounds like all those crazy Americans didn't over-react. Imagine! Well, there goes your stereotype. Better read some more news to reinforce them back again! Quickly!

Here in the good ol' U. S. of A. we have something called "innocent until proven guilty" and "reasonable doubt". A jury seeing that pic may just find a whole basket full of that "reasonable doubt" stuff, add it to that "innocent until proven guilty" thingee and make a decision that trumps all of this Internet speculation hooplah.
One never knows. It could happen. Yep.

[happygeek]

lest you find yourself in one of these situations down the road.

?

I don't make a habit of chasing people around in the dark, or in daylight either. If I had been Zimmerman I would have finished driving home. Of course, I wouldn't have lived in that neighborhood either.

There seems to be enough lack of common sense in this case to go around - the "idiot" door doesn't swing one way.

I'm not sure what Martin did that was so wrong, unless of course he really did throw the first punch. If I was being followed by a vehicle at night while on foot I'd run too. That actually happened to me once and that's what I did. I went somewhere they couldn't follow in a vehicle; they didn't jump out and engage in a foot chase but if they had and it'd been one out of shape dude I probably would have turned around and told him to go **** himself too. Or I would have circled around to lose him. I'm not all that confrontational. I definitely wouldn't have gone straight home so the creep would know where I lived.

Further more I am sure that there are many genius criminals out in the world, but I would imagine that most don't just up and call the cops right before they kill someone. That is unless Zimmerman is a lot smarter than many folks on here profess to think he is?

I don't think Zimmerman planned it. It's entirely possible that Martin told Zimmerman to **** off and go play cop somewhere else, Zimmerman took offense at the affront to his "authority", and that's when the fight started.

[basicblur]

lest you find yourself in one of these situations down the road.
?
I don't make a habit of chasing people around in the dark, or in daylight either.

You might not be the chaser - you only have so much control over what the other party does.

I'm not sure what Martin did that was so wrong, unless of course he really did throw the first punch.

For the umpteenth time...if you have extricated yourself from a situation, why the heck would you want to then walk right back into it?
No one has yet explained how an overweight non-athlete could chase down a wide receiver. According to Zimmerman, he stopped chasing etc - all you have to do is listen to his breathing on the audio to know he stopped running, so how did he and Trayvon cross paths? He couldn't have caught him if they were both running, so after Zimmerman stops running, how the heck did they meet?

As stated earlier, this should be one of the main learning moments in this event, but nobody's gonna pass it on to their kids - they're too busy playing the race card and ?

If I was being followed by a vehicle at night while on foot I'd run too. That actually happened to me once and that's what I did.

I refer you back to the first line of this post!
You seem to question how something like that could happen to you, yet you then relate the story of a similar situation!?

I went somewhere they couldn't follow in a vehicle; they didn't jump out and engage in a foot chase but if they had and it'd been one out of shape dude I probably would have turned around and told him to go **** himself too.

Then I think we can safely assume you have learned nothing from either your earlier incident or Trayvon's?

[Loosedhorse]

Actually we have some pretty good evidence as to where Mr. Zimmerman's state of mind was

I don't disagree with that at all. However, if Zimmerman's state of mind was not murderous, that in no way mandates that Martin's state of mind was murderous.