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Thread: NH gun show loophole?

  1. #1
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    NH gun show loophole?



    http://www.seacoastonline.com/articl...NEWS-204270419

    New Hampshire is one of 39 states that have a gun show "loophole," which means there is no federally mandated background check requirement for any weapon sold by an unlicensed dealer. The only identification required must show the purchaser is a state resident and over age 21. If FFL dealers sell at gun shows, they still must conduct a background check.
    ^^
    Is that factually correct, and is that the infamous 'loophole' ?

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    That's about it.
    .
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    As I was reading through the USC regarding guns... wasn't there something along the line that transferring guns to convicted felons is a felony?

    Though, I imagine the law says it's a felony if you knew the other person had a conviction.

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    A loophole is anything that does not have a law for or against it.

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    There is no loophole - there is only the law.

    Some just cannot get around that in some states guns are treated the same as a toaster or goat once the first saleš takes place, and want more restrictions.

    They call this freedom a "loophole in the law", which it certainly is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanius
    As I was reading through the USC regarding guns... wasn't there something along the line that transferring guns to convicted felons is a felony?

    Though, I imagine the law says it's a felony if you knew the other person had a conviction.
    Under federal law, it is illegal to knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person (this class includes felons).

    [1] or any firearms purchase from an FFL.
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    The "gun show loophole" exists only in the minds of anti-gun blissninnies. The vast majority of states do not have laws prohibiting the private sale of cars, used refrigerators, domestic hogs or guns.

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    @nalioth
    Thanks..

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    FFL (federal firearms license) dealers are the only ones authorized to do background checks under the 1994 Brady Act.

    Folks buying, selling or trading a few personal guns from their private collections do not qualify for FFLs, since they are not engaged in the business of dealing in firearms (defined by rather elastic ATF rules), but under the 1968 Gun Control Act folks can legally buy, sell or trade their personal guns and not be "engaged in the business" of dealing in firearms*.

    Originally, gun shows were private collector shows, no dealers allowed, in part since ATF required FFLs to do business only at the address on their license and in part since gun collectors felt gun dealers commercialized what had been gun collector shows. Gun collectors or just folks with used guns would go to sell or trade with gun collectors or folks interested in old guns.

    Then ATF allowed FFLs to do business at gunshows as long as they filled out 4473 transaction records. And after that, by 1994 Brady Act, FFL gun dealers were required to do NCIS NICS background checks as part of the 4473 process.

    So the gunshow loophole is something created as the unintended consequence of the feds allowing FFL dealers to operate at gunshows then later requiring FFL dealers to do background checks.

    Current gunshows are a good place to trade or sell a used gun to a FFL dealer or to a gun collector. ATF stats actually show that gunshows are the least important source of crime guns. A lot of the private transactions at gun shows today, occurred in the past at flea markets, swap meets, yard sales, and other informal venues. "Closing the gun show loophole" by limiting gun show transactions to FFLs doing NICS BG checks would move a lot of the private transfactions back to informal venues, which are more likely to be sources of crime guns than gun shows themselves.





    *(however, if ATF decides you are illegally dealing by their own arbitrary standards, you can be prosecuted, especially if you gain a street rep as an unquestioning source of firearms).
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    It has very little to do with gun shows. What the liberals want to prohibit is private transfers of guns, period. Closing the "gun show loophole" would mean you could no longer give your old deer rifle to your son without a federal background check, assorted paperwork, transfer fee, etc.

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    There is no such thing as a "loophole".


    Okay, maybe in the case of W.C. Fields, who on his deathbed was seen reading a Bible for the first time. When asked why now, he responded, "Looking for loopholes."

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    It's simiilar to the "Driving Below the Speed Limit" loophole that some use to avoid traffic tickets
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    ".....no federally mandated background check requirement for any weapon sold by an unlicensed dealer...."

    If you are a dealer, you are required to have a federal firearms license as a licensed dealer.

    A person merely selling or trading a used gun or guns, or even liquidating a personal gun collection, is not "engaged in the business" and therefore is not a dealer and cannot get a license.

    Someone engaged in the business of making an income buying or selling guns on a regular basis, "an unlicensed dealer", is a federal firearms felon and unlicensed dealers do get busted by ATF at gun shows and elsewhere: one got busted at a local flea market not too long ago. So the antis want "unlicensed dealers" doing background checks on their transactions at gun shows? Why not just arrest unlicensed dealers. Oh, ATF already does that. What was the original question?
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    BTW, the reconstructed Fort Watauga at Sycamore Shoals has some gun loopholes.
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  14. #14
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    New Hampshire is one of 39 states that have a gun show "loophole," which means there is no federally mandated background check requirement for any weapon sold by an unlicensed dealer. The only identification required must show the purchaser is a state resident and over age 21. If FFL dealers sell at gun shows, they still must conduct a background check.
    The term "unlicensed dealer" is purposely decietful too. "Dealer" implies the sellers are doing something illegal and they conduct the sales as a business without a license. That is not the case. "Dealing" in firearms sales as a business without a license is indeed illegal. What's actually taking place are very limited private sales between private parties.
    The same type of sale that would take place by the same people buying or selling through the classifieds only they are doing it at a gunshow where the potential of more buyers may show up. They are selling or trading privately owned guns, but not as a business.
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    No such thing as unlicensed legal dealer.

    There are no such things as unlicensed dealers who are legal!!!!!!!

    If you are in the business of buying and selling firearms you are a dealer and are required to get a FFL from the Feds! If you are a private individual who occasionally buys and/or sells a personally owned firearm then you are not a dealer and are not required by federal law to have a FFL.

    Maybe the state you live in requires all face to face firearms sales to go through a FFL but not any federal law as long as you are both residences of the same state.

    The so called "Gun Show Loophole is just an attempt by gun control people to outlaw all private sales of firearms so they can further their goals of total government control of who may or may not be allowed to own firearms.
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    What about all the unlicensed car dealers ???

    The classified ads are full of examples.
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    Perhaps I should have written "There are no such things as unlicensed FIREARM dealers who are legal!!!!!!!"

    As this is a thread about firearms I just assumed that everyone would know I was talking about firearm dealers, not car dealers.

    BTY, Don't even car dealers need to have a state license of somesuch?
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellyJar View Post
    Perhaps I should have written "There are no such things as unlicensed FIREARM dealers who are legal!!!!!!!"

    As this is a thread about firearms I just assumed that everyone would know I was talking about firearm dealers, not car dealers.

    BTY, Don't even car dealers need to have a state license of somesuch?
    Sarcasm alert
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  19. #19
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    I can sign my car title over to a buyer as a private party in an occassional sale of a used car, although I suspect if I did it often enough to appear to be making a living (and owing the state business taxes) questions might be raised.

    I have occassionally, over forty years or so, sold or traded guns with people known to me to be legal gun owners. Even then prosecution as an illegal dealer is basicly up to the discretion of ATF. I have been told that around here they do not act unless you gain a "street rep" as an unquestioning source of guns to persons inlegible to buy from an FFL.
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