Another cop just wanted to get home safe....?

[cassandrasdaddy]

you didn't like that question? i don't blame ya

the answer is nurses kill more than 5 times as many as cops and at least some of the ones cops kill had it coming

how many times has someone tried to kill a nurse just cause of her job?

[JTHunter]

tasing the nekkid old bat was the best option for that cop.

What about a bucket full of cold water? Or using a garden hose? Even the low pressure of a garden hose can temporarily blind a person, knock their glasses off, shock them with the cold water, distracting the perp enough to throw a blanket over them and tie them up.

Tase an 80-yr-old? It's a wonder she didn't have a heart condition and have a coronary!

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://juns.nursing.arizona.edu/arti...002/hrobak.htm


and whats this remind you of?
http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2010/d...rted-ar-20362/



http://www.modernmedicine.com/modern.../detail/592623

[IA_farmboy]

@cassandrasdaddy
From your last link:

The American Nurses Association (ANA) says approximately 10% of nurses are dependent on drugs, making the incidence of drug abuse and addiction among nurses consistent with that of the U.S. population. With nearly 3 million RNs employed in the U.S., that means almost 300,000 RNs may be substance abusers; put another way, if you work with 10 nurses, one of them is likely to be struggling with addiction.

Drug abuse is a problem with all professions. The difference with nurses is that they have access to the drugs at their workplace. That difference means when nurses steal to get their drugs they can cut out the middle man that others would have to deal with. Other addicts would steal to buy the drugs, nurses can just steal the drugs.

the answer is nurses kill more than 5 times as many as cops and at least some of the ones cops kill had it coming

A quick Google search gave me several sources that place the number of police officers in the USA at about 700,000. With about 3 million nurses in the USA that would mean the per capita kill rate between the two professions is about on par.

Concerning whether or not these people "had it coming" is so subjective that I'm not sure how to respond. How am I to know if some person "deserved" to die?

Accidentally overdosing a mother in labor with pain meds is not likely to be a case of "had it coming" by anyone's standard. I would also hope that no one would think that a kid getting shot because the police got the wrong address for a drug raid would claim the kid "had it coming". I don't believe this is a good argument to make, it may not turn out too well for you if someone wanted to do some research on this.

how many times has someone tried to kill a nurse just cause of her job?

Not very many I would hope. This is also an argument that I believe you may not want to make. I did a quick look and police officers barely made the top ten in dangerous jobs in the USA. A lot of people wound up dead just for delivering pizza. People tried killing them because they knew they had cash on them.

Deliverymen and police officers have another thing in common besides a high on the job fatality rate. That is the cause of death being most likely the result of an automotive collision.

This also gets into who kills the most people wrongly. With automotive collisions causing about 40,000 deaths every year in this federation I have to ask, which would you wager is more likely to be driving the car that kills an old lady just trying to cross the street? A nurse or a police officer?

Any profession that rates high on the receiving end of deaths in automotive collisions I imagine that they also rate highly on the sending end.

[Temma]

[sarcasm]Isn't it terrible how those Atlanta nurses murdered Kathrine Johnston?

And the way those nurses shot those people on the Danziger Bridge in New Orleans?

And the coverups!

Shameful![/sarcasm]

[Selena]

how many times has someone tried to kill a nurse just cause of her job?

How many of those cops 'killed cause of the job' created the situation due to poor judgment? When you tease a bull it's your own fault you get hooked. And quite frankly, when the rank and file defend scum like Harless... perhaps the trend is just a self fulfilling fantasy.

As for your statistics... I didn't kill anybody last night. Nor did any of my co-workers. But then, our Harless's are subject to review based on the profession not the reputation and don't last too long. Those that slip through the cracks don't get the help and support of their peers to continue abuses.

[Temma]

how many times has someone tried to kill a nurse just cause of her job?

Why don't you ask Corazon Amurao about that...

[Temma]

How many of those cops 'killed cause of the job' created the situation due to poor judgment?

The answer is OBVIOUSLY, "none".

Cops don't have poor judgment. Look at the GOOD "judgment" by the Atlanta PD who killed that "dope dealer" Katherine Johnston. Faking up a warrant affidavit on the basis of invented testimony from an imaginary informant was the height of "good judgment". In fact, it was sheer genius... as was planting drugs in her house when things went a bit awry.

Maybe you ought to get a job where you actually HELP people, instead of being a nurse. You know, like being a COP.

Look at how they helped Katherine Johnston.

And if it weren't for those meddling kids in Ohioans for Concealed Carry, Daniel Harless would STILL be "helping" people the way he helped William Bartlett and the other people in the dashcam videos...

[Selena]

The answer is OBVIOUSLY, "none".

Cops don't have poor judgment. Look at the GOOD "judgment" by the Atlanta PD who killed that "dope dealer" Katherine Johnston. Faking up a warrant affidavit on the basis of invented testimony from an imaginary informant was the height of "good judgment". In fact, it was sheer genius... as was planting drugs in her house when things went a bit awry.

Temma, I really see no diff in that reaction than I do to CD's. Atlanta PD was forced to try those people and the situation, at least with those players, was somewhat corrected although the consequences were laughable.

CD will never understand why I laughed at his little nurses kill ploy. Of course you are going to find stats on drug abuse and malpractice in my profession. This is because, simply, my profession's action are scrutinized and the misdeeds of bad players punished and brought forth in the cleansing light of day.

Cop malfeasance is investigated by other cops more concern with the reputation of the department than keeping dangerous predators in uniform off the street. To use a term from days gone by, it's easy to find the dirty underwear of the medical profession simply because we wash them on a constant basis and hang them on the line. LEO's? Their dirt is swept under a rug and promptly ignored. Once again, it's not the average cop that needs to be put under a microscope, but there needs to be an independent review outside of the legal system to scrutinize and punish the dregs that manage to fill a uniform. Until then... far too many of the cops shot "because of their job" may have suffered a natural result of the nature of their job and need be removed from consideration.

[TCB in TN]

Hasn't everyone had that moment when driving along and they are randomly stopped by a nurse and then they are forced to take medicine and if you give them any back talk they threaten to inject an air bubble into your blood stream. And if you do object and report them then all of their nurse buddies drive by and mess with you and pull you over and inject you with dangerous drugs. I mean that happens all of the time right?????

[Selena]

Hasn't everyone had that moment when driving along and they are randomly stopped by a nurse and then they are forced to take medicine and if you give them any back talk they threaten to inject an air bubble into your blood stream. And if you do object and report them then all of their nurse buddies drive by and mess with you and pull you over and inject you with dangerous drugs. I mean that happens all of the time right?????

Don't get me started on the sarcasm... And don't forget forcing to put on examination gowns that seem to be nearly impossible for people to tie in the back correctly.

[Temma]

Temma, I really see no diff in that reaction than I do to CD's. Atlanta PD was forced to try those people and the situation, at least with those players, was somewhat corrected although the consequences were laughable.

I believe that you made an error there... one which only reinforces the truth of your underlying premise.

Atlanta DIDN'T prosecute those cops, IIRC. It was (as usual) a FEDERAL prosecution, as was the case with the Danziger Bridge murders and the Chicago PD S.O.S. home invasion ring.

Local police departments and prosecutors simply can't be TRUSTED to prosecute misconduct by their officers.

Contrast the treatment of Officer (later Detective) Alvin Weems of the Chicago PD and George Zimmerman.

Weems shot an unarmed, unresisting man in the face while standing under a bank of transit authority video cameras and lied about it. He was NEVER indicted or prosecuted, and was in fact PROMOTED.

Zimmerman on the other hand is facing the full weight of the law. While there is doubt about what happened on that night, there is ZERO documentary evidence that Zimmerman LIED about what happened, never mind that he lied about something captured on video. The difference? Zimmerman's not a cop.

[Jamie B]

you didn't like that question? i don't blame ya

the answer is nurses kill more than 5 times as many as cops and at least some of the ones cops kill had it coming

how many times has someone tried to kill a nurse just cause of her job?

Factor in doctors and the remainder of the health community (insurance companies, hospitals, and nursing homes) and I'll wager that is a huge number!

Talk about cover ups! Money is the driving factor.

All you need to do is subscribe to Reader's Digest and Consumer Reports to get details.

[Jamie B]

From the Starfield study,

Every year in the US there are:

12,000 deaths from unnecessary surgeries;

7,000 deaths from medication errors in hospitals;

20,000 deaths from other errors in hospitals;

80,000 deaths from infections acquired in hospitals;

106,000 deaths from FDA-approved correctly prescribed medicines.

The total of medically-caused deaths in the US every year is 225,000.

This makes the medical system the third leading cause of death in the US, behind heart disease and cancer.

http://www.rense.com/general91/medic.htm

Nice start, CD, but the total numbers are quite staggering.
The results are worse than a good cover up, as nobody in the field are addressing the problems.

[SomeKid]

CD, I have to applaud your effort at attempting to turn a legitimate thread about abuses by government agents, into an attack on a profession of people who (while exceptions do of course exist) is there to help save lives. You truly are a troll of extraordinary capability.

Jamie, your assertion that nobody in the field is trying to correct the accidents that occur in healthcare is ludicrous. As cited earlier in thread, when that cop in Ohio made his threats it was swept under the rug until OFCC stepped in. In healthcare when people make honest mistakes (not overt and indefensable threats on innocent life) admission is made, and attempts to correct the problem are made, often times including discipline to staff. Unlike law enforcement, we in healthcare do not enjoy anything like the privileges that prevent them from being sued in civil court.

To compare the honest human mistakes that occur, likely daily in healthcare, with the casual, callous, corrupt, and covered up intentional acts perpetuated upon the citizenry by our supposed government "protectors", also on a daily basis, is an act of complete intellectual dishonesty.

[Jamie B]

And certainly none of the folks causing those innocent accidents causing the deaths of 225,000 people annually should be disciplined, or, dare I say, actually fired for their incompetence.

Sorry, but CD challenged correctly - the outrage should be directed at those whose industry causes the most harm, regardless of intent.

Cops are there to save lives also - save your indignation.

[KodiakBeer]

When a medical professional (or butcher, baker, candlestick maker) makes a mistake, the person suffering has civil and/or criminal redress for their grievances.

When a cop makes a mistake or even an act of willful misconduct, there are usually no consequences whatsoever. That's the problem, and the only problem.

I don't think cops make more bad calls than other professions, in fact they (in my opinion) probably make less since their every move is monitored by an authority via radio. It's just that when they do go off the rails their misconduct is covered up and "cleared" by the same bureaucrats you'd have to get redress from - the justice system.

Like a broken record, my refrain is always that cops should not be held to a lower standard than everyone else. To change that, the public sector unions need to be broken, completely, and you need a completely neutral agency investigating such incidents.

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://patients.about.com/b/2009/05/...er-doctors.htm

Some points to make:

This article cites study results from IMAP (Institute of Medicine as a Profession) that showed that 46 percent of doctors had witnessed a serious error committed by their colleagues but did not turn those colleagues in. Until doctors realize that their OWN reputations are affected when they keep their mouths shut about their dangerous colleagues, then not much will change.

Doctors need to realize that this is not about being a tattle tale. This is about saving lives. I would go so far as to say that if a doctor (or a nurse or any other professional who witnesses a serious error) does not report it properly, then the next time that mistake-making doctor hurts a patient, the non-reporting professional is JUST as guilty as the one who made the mistake.

Physician errors raise as many ethical questions as they do tactical questions. Everyone can make a mistake, and medical professionals are no different. Granted, no one wants to make mistakes, but good, moral, ethical people fess up -- then take the steps necessary, whenever possible, to correct them.

One problem is transparency... very little information exists to help patients get the information they need to make the choices they need to make. I've written up some guidelines for uncovering a doctor's mistakes or malpractice, but even they may not be adequate.

My friend and colleague Patty Skolnik, who is mentioned in the RD article, has made some huge strides toward helping us get the information we need. Patty lost her son Michael to a surgeon who should not have been performing surgery. She leads a group called Colorado Citizens for Accountability, which provides a website for all states (not just Colorado) to help people find what transparency laws exist in their states: Patients Right to Know

Anyone can make a mistake. But when a medical professional makes a serious one, it affects someone's life forever, or causes a death. Until the medical profession and the state offices that regulate them begin to understand that it's time to take steps to weed out those who have no ethical or moral backbone, that situation won't improve much, if at all.

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://stlouis.legalexaminer.com/med...of-health.aspx

Most doctors and nurses (and other medical professionals) are trustworthy, honest, and good at their jobs. I personally love and completely trust all of my doctors and the doctors and medical professionals who treat my children. But some doctors, nurses and medical professionals take advantage and abuse the medical profession and their medical licenses. When doctors and nurses are licensed, they take an oath. And just like we teach our children, you must take responsibility for your actions. Say sorry when you are wrong. Accept the consequences when you mess up.

Doctors and nurses are human - they make mistakes - we all do. But sometimes the mistakes and medical errors made by doctors and nurses can cause people great harm. It is especially important for doctors and nurses to own up to their mistakes when someone is injured or killed. Oftentimes, as recently reported by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, that doesn't happen.

Let's face it - doctors protect doctors and nurses protect nurses. Sometimes they even go so far as to cover-up for each other. They justify the cover up by telling themselves that their intentions were good, they didn't mean to hurt anyone, and therefore, no one needs to know. I've also heard doctors and other medical professionals use the excuse that what happened to the unknowing patient was simply a known complication. A known complication doesn't mean it should happen! Such an argument is an absolute slippery slope. What is to stop medical professionals from claiming that every type of injury alleged in a medical malpractice case came from a known complication? Is it a known complication for a surgeon to accidentally cut an organ - an artery - during surgery? If a surgeon performs surgery on a healthy right knee instead of a damaged left knee, just because he didn't intentionally do it, it is still a mistake - the patient is still hurt - someone is responsible. Who pays for the clients harms and losses incurred as a result of these mistakes?

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://takingnote.tcf.org/2008/05/medical-malprac.html

“There are two things to fear in life,” Justice Brandeis once said: “death and litigation.” Most physicians would agree. Win or lose, the process of being sued for malpractice will forever change the way he views both his profession and his patients. No wonder fear of malpractice drives so much costly and potentially hazardous “defensive medicine.” Nevertheless, some have argued that malpractice suits protect patients by forcing hospital boards to take a closer look at patient safety issues. Perhaps—but the high administrative costs associated with malpractice suits, combined with the effect they have had on the doctor-patient relationship suggests that there should be a better way to shield the sick.

An article in Sunday’s New York Times points to a new approach. “For decades,” the Times reported, “malpractice lawyers and insurers have counseled doctors and hospitals to ‘deny and defend.’ Many still warn clients that any admission of fault, or even expression of regret, is likely to invite litigation and imperil careers.” But with providers “choking on malpractice costs and consumers demanding action against medical errors,” some of the nation’s leading hospitals are trying out what is, for them, a new strategy—reveal and apologize. It’s a simple solution: telling the truth. The mounting cost of malpractice claims may finally be having a constructive effect. The evidence suggests that if more hospitals adopt this approach, there could be great benefits, both for physicians and for patients.

Nevertheless, there are risks for health care providers. “Disclosure is the right thing to do,” an article published in Health Affairs last year observed, but as “pressure mounts on physicians and hospitals to disclose adverse outcomes…and medical injuries” they should be aware that the volume of claims would rise and providers should be ready for “the financial consequences.”

After all, we are, as everyone knows, a litigious society. President Bush has warned us, repeatedly, of “what’s happening all across this country...lawyers are filing baseless suits against hospitals and doctors. That’s just a plain fact. And they’re doing it for a simple reason. They know the medical liability system is tilted in their favor.” In the nation’s “judicial hellholes,” the President of the United States cautions us, “every claim filed by a personal-injury lawyer brings the chance of a huge payoff or a profitable settlement out of court...This liability system of ours is out of control.”

The President is not alone: you have read the news stories about the multi-million dollar cases, and the op-ed pieces declaring that they are now the norm: emotional juries and prejudiced courts are persecuting blameless doctors, driving up the cost of health care while forever ruining careers.

As is so often the case, what “everyone knows” just isn’t true.

Consider these facts from a study conducted by the Harvard School of Public Health and published in the New England Journal of Medicine.

“The great majority of patients who sustain a medical injury as a result of negligence do not sue.” Indeed, the New York Times reports, although “recent studies have found that one of every 100 hospital patients suffers negligent treatment, and that as many as 98,000 die each year as a result . . . only a small fraction of injured patients — perhaps 2 percent—press legal claims.)

“Just 1.1 percent of all doctors accounted for 30 percent of all malpractice payments made between 1990 and 2002, while only 5.2 percent of doctors were responsible for 55 percent of all payouts.” A very small group of doctors are losing or settling malpractice lawsuits, but they are losing big.

“Eighty percent of claims involved injuries that caused significant or major disability (39 percent and 15 percent, respectively) or death (26 percent).”

These numbers undermine much of the conventional wisdom about medical malpractice lawsuits. Before taking a closer look at the analysis, note that this report comes, not from Harvard’s Law School, but it’s School of Public Health. In other words, this is not a cabal representing lawyers who should be sitting on the bottom of the ocean. These researchers are interested in our health as a nation.

The study’s size also lends it credibility. (As the authors note, “Previous investigations of the relationship between the merits and the outcomes of malpractice claims involved the use of small numbers of claims; focused on a single hospital, insurer, specialty, or type of injury; involved the use of very limited information in the determination of merit; or relied on the insurer's view of the defensibility of the claim as a proxy for merit rather than on independent expert judgment. This study was designed to overcome those limitations.) The researchers cast a wide net over Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southwest, and West, examining records involving some 33,000 physicians, 61 acute care hospitals (35 of them academic and 26 nonacademic), and 428 outpatient facilitie



lots more in this article but you wannabe nurses and nurse and doctor lovers won't like it heres a taste

Here is the crux of the problem: traditionally, hospital policy has encouraged secrecy and denial. As a result, the Harvard researchers observed, it can be very difficult for a patient to find out “what happened” and whether the injury was the result of negligence or error “before the initiation of a claim and the acquisition of knowledge that comes from the investigations, consultation with experts, and sharing of information that litigation triggers.” Hospitals do not usually open up their records to scrutiny unless a lawsuit forces their hand.

Meanwhile, doctors cover up for each other—“don’t report him,” they tell colleagues. “It’ll wreck his life. . . Think how hard you worked to get through medical school and your residency—just the way he did. I agree—he’s a bonehead. But we can’t report him.”

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://newsmedicalworld.blogspot.com...rror-well.html

Well, we did our best. These things happen."
At least 100,000 hospital patients dying each year due to medical
malpractice in the U.S.
"Substandard or negligent care have been swept under the rug" by the
medical profession for too long.

"'The person most likely to kill you is not a relative or a friend, or
a mugger or a burglar or a drunken driver. The person most likely to
kill you is your doctor."
---- Vernon Coleman, author - What Doctors Don't Tell You

It's a wonder any of us makes it out of the doctor's office or
hospital alive

Physicians SHOULD disclose to patients information about procedural or
judgment errors made in the course of care

A 2000 Institute of Medicine report estimated that medical errors are
estimated to result in about between 44,000 and 98,000 preventable
deaths and 1,000,000 excess injuries each year in U.S. hospitals.[

^ Zhang, J., Patel, V.L., & Johnson, T.R (2008). "Medical error: Is
the solution medical or cognitive?". Journal of the American Medical
Informatics Association 6 (Supp1): 75–77. doi:10.1197/jamia.M1232.

A medical error is a preventable adverse effect of care, whether or
not it is evident or harmful to the patient. This might include an
inaccurate or incomplete diagnosis or treatment of a disease, injury,
syndrome, behavior, infection, or other ailment.

The American Medical Association's Council on Ethical and Judicial
Affairs states in its ethics code:

"Situations occasionally occur in which a patient suffers significant
medical complications that may have resulted from the physician's
mistake or judgment. In these situations, the physician is ethically
required to inform the patient of all facts necessary to ensure
understanding of what has occurred. Concern regarding legal liability
which might result following truthful disclosure should not affect the
physician's honesty with a patient."

From the American College of Physicians Ethics Manual[62]:

"In addition, physicians should disclose to patients information about
procedural or judgment errors made in the course of care if such
information is material to the patient's well-being. Errors do not
necessarily constitute improper, negligent, or unethical behavior, but
failure to disclose them may."
However, "there appears to be a gap between physicians' attitudes and
practices regarding error disclosure. Willingness to disclose errors
was associated with higher training level and a variety of patient-
centered attitudes, and it was not lessened by previous exposure to
malpractice litigation".[63] Hospital administrators may share these
concerns.[64]

[Zipperhead]

http://patients.about.com/b/2009/05/...er-doctors.htm

Some points to make:

This article cites study results from IMAP (Institute of Medicine as a Profession) that showed that 46 percent of doctors had witnessed a serious error committed by their colleagues but did not turn those colleagues in. Until doctors realize that their OWN reputations are affected when they keep their mouths shut about their dangerous colleagues, then not much will change.

Doctors need to realize that this is not about being a tattle tale. This is about saving lives. I would go so far as to say that if a doctor (or a nurse or any other professional who witnesses a serious error) does not report it properly, then the next time that mistake-making doctor hurts a patient, the non-reporting professional is JUST as guilty as the one who made the mistake.

Physician errors raise as many ethical questions as they do tactical questions. Everyone can make a mistake, and medical professionals are no different. Granted, no one wants to make mistakes, but good, moral, ethical people fess up -- then take the steps necessary, whenever possible, to correct them.

One problem is transparency... very little information exists to help patients get the information they need to make the choices they need to make. I've written up some guidelines for uncovering a doctor's mistakes or malpractice, but even they may not be adequate.

My friend and colleague Patty Skolnik, who is mentioned in the RD article, has made some huge strides toward helping us get the information we need. Patty lost her son Michael to a surgeon who should not have been performing surgery. She leads a group called Colorado Citizens for Accountability, which provides a website for all states (not just Colorado) to help people find what transparency laws exist in their states: Patients Right to Know

Anyone can make a mistake. But when a medical professional makes a serious one, it affects someone's life forever, or causes a death. Until the medical profession and the state offices that regulate them begin to understand that it's time to take steps to weed out those who have no ethical or moral backbone, that situation won't improve much, if at all.

Just what the heck does this have to do with a cowardly cop tazing an 80 year old nude woman?

Zip

[Bubbles]

Thread has gone OT, not gun-related.