Best gun for dealing with activated spree killers

[230RN]

I wonder why you folks are talking about long guns. If such a thing happens, chances are, what? 99%, that you will have only your daily carry piece.

The only recent time I know of where long guns came in handy was at the Texas Tower incident, where, apparently, some ordinary citizen(s?) went back to their truck(s) to recover rifle(s), which were instrumental in delivering suppressive fire.

Oh, and I guess, stretching it, the LA riots.

There may be others, but I don't remember them.

For myself, a handgun with laser sights will have to do. I mounted lasers on both my carry guns. And I suspect (tacticians can challenge me on this) that just painting the creep's general area with the laser dot will be pretty effective as a suppressant itself.

However like tracers, lasers probably work in both directions.

Yes, I've thought of that, too. Nevertheless, given an opportunity to do so with the safety of others in mind, that's my contingency plan.

I may get lucky, or I may get very unlucky, but as I said, I've made some surprisingly "lucky" shots in my day.

Terry, 230RN

PS. I have become a strong believer in laser sights for personal defense arms, especially for those of us of advanced age. One attractive feature of them is that you can fire from hip or belly level in low lighting conditions without the muzzle flash blinding you momentarily. I found that out with my 2" J-frame with +P ammo, which resembles a Fourth of July Aerial Salute when it goes off in dim light.

[Jamie B]

Thank you for the common sense, Terry.

EDC is definitely the weapon utilized here.

I, too, have a laser sighted J frame.

I usually carry my .45, as I really like the caliber.

[230RN]

^ Yep, .45 in winter, J-frame in summer, where clothing penetration is not that much of a concern and concealment is a slight problem. Lasers on both.

[Selena]

I'm hearing .223's, 45's and even JD playing a 78. In the end, should I (God and the Saints forbid) find myself in that situation the odds are all I'll have at hand will be my little Colt Commander .38 Super. Maybe it will be enough, a feeble 71 year old man in Florida put two young thugs to flight with a .380. Hopefully I could do the same with my slightly more powerful .38. In the meanwhile, I hope all will forgive me if I pray constantly to never have to find out for sure.

[NEOKShooter]

I carry a 1911 winter and summer.

All these shootings are making me very anti gun and I want to make sure I can take out the guy with the gun so he can't use his gun any more. Maybe I'll get a grip laser system.

[1911 guy]

First off, if you happen to be standing on ground zero when the excrement impacts the rotating impeller, you'll be dancing with who brung ya. Meaning, you'll be using a handgun. If it's not enough gun to stop a "spree killer", it's not enough gun to stop anyone else. Get a bigger gun.

Secondly, having used the 5.56 in the real world, it is EXTREMEMLY viable, especially given 60-plus grain ammunition and soft points. Yep, it's little, but it also punches above its weight. Would I prefer a .30 caliber? Sure. Nobody ever walks out of a gunfight and wishes they'd had a smaller gun or less ammo. But I don't feel undergunned with an AR or M16.

[230RN]

I double-dog dare anyone to try bringing something like this into a theatre --even before the Aurora dealie:



"It's just my lunch."
"I brought some paperwork home."
"It's full of popcorn, so I can beat your snack stand prices."

Yeah, sure. You might as well try bringing a pack mule in. Somebody will challenge you on it, they will ask you to open it for inspection, and if you refuse, they'll ask you to leave, and if you get stubborn about it they'll call the cops, and you'd better not do it on a Friday, because you'll be in the pokey until Monday waiting for your arraignment.

Tuesday, if it's a three-day Holiday weekend.

Unless you have a bondsman's phone number in your pocket.

No personal offense, but c'mon, be realistic. You ain't going to have a long gun with you, and no amount of artificial "what ifs" will change that.

My final recommendation: Put a laser sight on your sidearm.

Terry, 230RN

[armoredman]

So what are you going to pay up on that dare with - already carried that more than one place with no issues, including areas where that type of "luggage" isn't expected. Not one person said BOO. I quit doing that when I had proven my point to myself, and decided the PITA was nowhere near worth it. I, of course, still use that case for range transport - nice to not stick out like the long camo rifle case that get attention from nosy neighbors.

No personal offense, but c'mon, be realistic. You ain't going to have a long gun with you, and no amount of artificial "what ifs" will change that.

It ain't a what-if, as I've already done it. LEGALLY. I also don't plan on doing it again anytime soon, as I have said - it's a PITA.
I await your check in the mail.

[bigfatdave]

My sub2000 does fit into a smallish laptop bag nicely.
I don't move it around that way, but I could do so easily.

And nobody questions a diaper bag

[KodiakBeer]

Dance with who you brung...

For all of us, really, that's going to be a handgun. In the last couple of years I've been practicing out to 100 yards with my various handguns. I'm not that hot - check out some of Old Grumps posts for somebody who is damned good at long range!

But... I've found it is surprisingly easy to keep your shots in a torso sized group at 100 yards. Interestingly, with 115 grain 9mm's, you don't even need to hold over; just put the top of the front post where you want the slug to land and it will.

.45 acp needs a tad of hold over which varies by bullet weight, but with any weight in .45, if you held on the head the slugs will neatly land in the center or upper torso.

A handgun slug doesn't have lot of power at 100 yards, but if you're smart enough to seek cover you could empty an entire magazine into a BG's torso without exposing yourself.

Anyway, the next time you hit the range, try some shots with your carry gun at long range. You might be surprised.

[NEOKShooter]

Dance with who you brung...

For all of us, really, that's going to be a handgun. In the last couple of years I've been practicing out to 100 yards with my various handguns. I'm not that hot - check out some of Old Grumps posts for somebody who is damned good at long range!

But... I've found it is surprisingly easy to keep your shots in a torso sized group at 100 yards. Interestingly, with 115 grain 9mm's, you don't even need to hold over; just put the top of the front post where you want the slug to land and it will.

.45 acp needs a tad of hold over which varies by bullet weight, but with any weight in .45, if you held on the head the slugs will neatly land in the center or upper torso.

A handgun slug doesn't have lot of power at 100 yards, but if you're smart enough to seek cover you could empty an entire magazine into a BG's torso without exposing yourself.

Anyway, the next time you hit the range, try some shots with your carry gun at long range. You might be surprised.

I don't know about the seeking cover and hitting with as many shots as you can. Easier said than done - but always better to die trying than to die crying.

I shoot to 100 yards with my .45 every time I go to the range. Obviously my sights don't line up for that but I can work up to hitting a clay pigeon mounted on the ground at 100 yards. As for power at that range - well, I don't ever want to be shot at 100 yards to find out.

Chuck Hawks has some interesting data in his Handgun Trajectory Table.

[21H40]

Use something you can hit the bad guy with - and preferably hit him either really hard or very often. Even with armor he will change behavior. If he's wearing the best available modern ceramic armor, you can still knock him down and make him stop attacking - even if he survives.

It's not rocket-surgery or a video game. If he doesn't die instantly, you will probably force him to stop killing people anyway. That counts as success.

As for the 5.56 not being enough gun... again, real life doesn't require one shot wonder kills. I've seen enough people shot with military 5.56 to believe that it can kill at 600 meters or 15 meters. Sometimes it takes the shooter more than one shot, but that's not as big of a deal in real life as it is on the internet. It works more than good enough.

[KodiakBeer]

The thing is, you aren't going to be sitting in the movie theater or walking down the street with an AR15. You're going to have your carry gun. You can flee or you can choose to fight, but you can't choose a weapon you don't have.

[Johnny Dollar]

The thing is, you aren't going to be sitting in the movie theater or walking down the street with an AR15. You're going to have your carry gun. You can flee or you can choose to fight, but you can't choose a weapon you don't have.

Exactly on target That is why my S&W 686P S&W .357 Magnum is going to hopefully be enough to do the job. 13 rounds counting the backup speedloader.

[230RN]

KodiakBeer mentioned,

"A handgun slug doesn't have lot of power at 100 yards, but if you're smart enough to seek cover you could empty an entire magazine into a BG's torso without exposing yourself."

Well, as I mentioned, a .45ACP will penetrate 5" of pine at 100 yards. Besides, as I also pointed out, the mere fact of bullets whanging around him or little red dots dancing around him might well discourage any further effort on the aggressor's part. I wouldn't rely on that, but it's a fairly good bet... for those of us who don't carry long arms in golf bags into theatres and coffee shops and the like.

Terry, 230RN

[KennyG]

Use something you can hit the bad guy with - and preferably hit him either really hard or very often. Even with armor he will change behavior. If he's wearing the best available modern ceramic armor, you can still knock him down and make him stop attacking - even if he survives.

It's not rocket-surgery or a video game. If he doesn't die instantly, you will probably force him to stop killing people anyway. That counts as success.

I have been told by people that have been shot while wearing body armor that it "feels like getting hit with a telephone pole"
If you aim for center mass as you are suppose to do, in addition to hitting a shooter in the torso, you stand a good chance of hitting an arm, a hand, the weapon, or all three.

[KodiakBeer]

I'm not even aware of a case where a spree killer had body armor. The only event I can recall where body armor was involved was the LA bank robbery some years ago.

[NEOKShooter]

KodiakBeer mentioned,

"A handgun slug doesn't have lot of power at 100 yards, but if you're smart enough to seek cover you could empty an entire magazine into a BG's torso without exposing yourself."

Well, as I mentioned, a .45ACP will penetrate 5" of pine at 100 yards. Besides, as I also pointed out, the mere fact of bullets whanging around him or little red dots dancing around him might well discourage any further effort on the aggressor's part. I wouldn't rely on that, but it's a fairly good bet... for those of us who don't carry long arms in golf bags into theatres and coffee shops and the like.

Terry, 230RN

And trying anything is better than laying down and waiting to die like a coward.