Does gun control work?

[Crimefree]

I keep asking the gun prohibitionists, gun haters, cowards, the paranoid prone and the little children who need somebody else to protect them where has gun control worked? Give me a restrictive gun control law or intervention and proof it caused a reduction of crime, murder, rape, suicide, robbery anything or reduced the supply of guns to criminals.

I get an idiotic response of Japan which is a country not a law or intervention. The start of Japan’s police state was the decree of Toyotomi Hideyoshi in 1588 and started one of the worst excesses of violence Japan has ever suffered.

Is that proof enough that weapons restriction are not a good thing for citizens to support? Hideyoshi was at least honest about his reasons. “The people in the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, short swords, bows, spears, firearms or other arms. The possession of unnecessary implements makes difficult the collection of taxes and tends to foment uprisings... Therefore the heads of provinces, official agents and deputies are ordered to collect all the weapons mentioned above and turn them over to the Government.”

They will not be the first to go on a quest to find this mythical success of gun control. They might look to Jamaica - no that will not do. Then closer to home Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Somalia or Zimbabwe, hmm no not those either. Maybe we can find one in the 25,000 laws in the USA?

The CDC had it funding cut by congress for abusing public money producing patently false gun control research and propaganda. In order to restore that funding the CDC review team undertook a study of gun laws and interventions. The report is freely vailable but hardly known. First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Early Childhood Home Visitation and Firearms Laws.

The shattering conclusion? “In summary, the Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence.”

Not to be out done the National Academy of Sciences undertook an even larger study which included a selection of the known research, books, laws and interventions, The National Academy Committee to Improve Research Information and Data on Firearms, law and Justice published this little known and ignored research. Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review (2004). The result of that exhaustive research? Exactly the same, not one success.

In the late 1970s Wright, Rossi and Daley undertook a comprehensive review of all the available American literature pertaining to weapons, crime and violence. Some of the main issues examined include, whether or not a causal link between private civilian firearm ownership and violent crime can be demonstrated, the alleged deterrent effect of civilian gun ownership, the intrinsic lethality of firearms and the effect of weapons control legislation on violent crime. After surveying the available evidence, Wright, Rossi and Daley concluded that most of the research was marred by severe methodological shortcomings and on the whole, the evidence was inconclusive.

Then in 1982 the US government conducted research, it was contracted to James Wright and Peter Rossi who undertook this ground breaking research. Wright and Rossi's findings support the claim that civilians armed with firearms constitute a significant deterrent to the criminally inclined. These results imply that restrictions imposed on civilian ownership of firearms in order to reduce incidents of violent crime, would be counter-productive. Carefully reviewing all existing research to date, the three scholars found no persuasive scholarly evidence that America's 20,000 gun control laws had reduced criminal violence.

There are twenty one self-defence with a gun studies which have been done in the US, everyone of them shows the effectiveness of armed defence, the only point of debate is how good it is.

While it may be said the excursionists have noted that most studies have pointed out the poor quality of research and conclusions simply point to the certainly that more study by better researchers using sound methodologists will get the results they know are there waiting to be found. How much more research is required to satisfy them when there is not even the faintest glimmer of hope?

They are looking for the impossible in order to justify their belief because if they cannot it would make them really oppressive people willing to trample the rights of others without valid proof. Of being responsible for an untold number of deaths, suffering and misery which is far to horrible for them to admit.

Maybe one day they will figure out that they are part of the problem, not the solution. How anyone believes these lies is a mystery but they do.

[Guns and more]

You're asking people who deal in "feelings" to listen to facts.
They won't do it.
"Yeah, but if there were no guns, no one would get shot."

[Rob Morse]

"Yeah, but if there were no guns, no one would get shot."

Like in "gun free" Africa where millions were hacked and beaten to death. There, that is better.

[Jamie B]

The result cannot be proven either way.

[Selena]

Like in "gun free" Africa where millions were hacked and beaten to death. There, that is better.

With some human beings there is just the desire to inflict pain. Take away one tool and they will simply find another. When swords were banned to the common people in long ago Japan the rice flail became nunchucka. When switchblade knives were declared illegal the so called "butterfly knife" became a hot seller. When denied ready access to explosives... some radicals decided that commercial airliners would hold their desire for devastation. The blunt object just doesn't sell as much airtime as a SKS disguised as an AK-47 is all.

[Nicky Santoro]

Does gun control work?

Well, it does help to ensure that a criminal will not face an armed victim. The reality is that some people are violent and have no thought for anyone other than themselves. If you gave them a broken branch, the first thing they would do is smack someone else in the head with it. Other people could have a jet aircraft in their back yard, armed with nuclear weapons, and the biggest problem anyone would have is how to trim the grass around the wheels.

[Guns and more]

Like in "gun free" Africa where millions were hacked and beaten to death. There, that is better.

Forget Africa, Washington, DC. or Chicago should be enough evidence. Laws only inhibit the law abiding citizen.

[Jamie B]

England and Japan have severe gun control, and their gun crime is virtually zero.

Their murder rates and violent crime rates are well below the US, no other weapons are being used instead of guns.

Gun control must work very well.

[JellyJar]

Jamie B

Nope!

The UK ( which includes England ) has a higher rate of all violent crime than the US with the exception of murder.

For some reason we Americans have been killing each other much more frequently than the British for some time now.

At the end of WWII we were killing ourselves about 8.5 times more often than the British. Despite that they had very few gun control laws in the UK in 1945!

Since then the gap has narrowed to about 3.6 times greater than they and our murder rate keeps decreasing despite more and more lenient gun control laws here and more restrictive gun control laws there.

As far as Japan is concerned, ordinary crime in Japan is much lower than here in the US. However, there are many incidents of murder-suicide in Japan where the murder of family members are not counted as murder.

If all real murders in Japan were counted properly then Japan's per capita rate of murder would be much higher.

Also, see this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080901964.html

Almost half of all murders in the US are committed by Blacks on Blacks despite that African Americans only comprise about 13% of the US population.

I calculated that if the African American community, in 2010, committed murder at the same rate as the non-black part of our population then our per capita rate of murder would only be about 3 per 100,000 instead of the 2010 rate of 4.8 per 100,000.

Note! Japan is a very different society than ours. The police, with the support of the people there, can do things our police cannot. Also, I am convinced that Japan's crime rate would be as low as it is now even without any gun control laws there. Just my opinion though.

Edit; Did some quick research and quick calculations.

All Numbers from the FBI's uniform crime index for 2010.

2010 US Population 308,745,000

African American Population at 13% 40,130,000

Non-Black Population 268,615,000

Total Murders 14,748

National Murder rate Per 100,000 4.8

49% of murders committed by Blacks 7,227

51% of murders committed by Non-Blacks 7,521

Non-Black Murder rate per 100,000 2.8

Black Murder rate per 100,000 18

Total Black murders if at 2.8 per 100,000 1124

Total US murders if Black murders = 1124 8645

National murder rate if all Black murders = 1124 2.8

For what ever reason there is a significant problem in parts of the African American community when it comes to violent crime. Without that problem the US's murder rate would be on a par with most Western oriented countries.

This in despite of ( of perhaps in part because of ) our gun control laws.

[Guns and more]

Note! Japan is a very different society than ours.

Yes, many would find Japan racist, as they keep their culture pure.
Family values, and respect for elders makes shaming your family almost unheard of. They are changing, and youth gangs are springing up. I guess we exported that.
So, a crime of passion is rare.

I've been to the UK, and I can say the Brits have an everlasting trust of their government. They can own guns, but they must be kept in a sporting club. Now, that the country is being populated by foreigners, that's changing too. Once the sun never set on the British Empire, so all foreigners from the colonies were welcome. Now, they've shown up. Walk through London (still a very safe city) and you'll see Indians, Siri Lankins, Chinese, and few Brits.

[Johnny Dollar]

Jamie B

Nope!

The UK ( which includes England ) has a higher rate of all violent crime than the US with the exception of murder.

For some reason we Americans have been killing each other much more frequently than the British for some time now.

At the end of WWII we were killing ourselves about 8.5 times more often than the British. Despite that they had very few gun control laws in the UK in 1945!

Since then the gap has narrowed to about 3.6 times greater than they and our murder rate keeps decreasing despite more and more lenient gun control laws here and more restrictive gun control laws there.

As far as Japan is concerned, ordinary crime in Japan is much lower than here in the US. However, there are many incidents of murder-suicide in Japan where the murder of family members are not counted as murder.

If all real murders in Japan were counted properly then Japan's per capita rate of murder would be much higher.

Also, see this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080901964.html

Almost half of all murders in the US are committed by Blacks on Blacks despite that African Americans only comprise about 13% of the US population.

I calculated that if the African American community, in 2010, committed murder at the same rate as the non-black part of our population then our per capita rate of murder would only be about 3 per 100,000 instead of the 2010 rate of 4.8 per 100,000.

Note! Japan is a very different society than ours. The police, with the support of the people there, can do things our police cannot. Also, I am convinced that Japan's crime rate would be as low as it is now even without any gun control laws there. Just my opinion though.

Edit; Did some quick research and quick calculations.

All Numbers from the FBI's uniform crime index for 2010.

2010 US Population 308,745,000

African American Population at 13% 40,130,000

Non-Black Population 268,615,000

Total Murders 14,748

National Murder rate Per 100,000 4.8

49% of murders committed by Blacks 7,227

51% of murders committed by Non-Blacks 7,521

Non-Black Murder rate per 100,000 2.8

Black Murder rate per 100,000 18

Total Black murders if at 2.8 per 100,000 1124

Total US murders if Black murders = 1124 8645

National murder rate if all Black murders = 1124 2.8

For what ever reason there is a significant problem in parts of the African American community when it comes to violent crime. Without that problem the US's murder rate would be on a par with most Western oriented countries.

This in despite of ( of perhaps in part because of ) our gun control laws.

Good research,Jelly. As Charlton Heston said 20 years ago when asked about the U.S crime rate compared to some other "calmer" nations, he answered,"it's in the demographics." He was excoriated ,but as we see from your stats, of course he was right.

And since Lyndon's "Great Society" kicked in, in the '60's, its only gotten worse. Fine conservative black Professors such as Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell and CORE's Roy Innis have discussed the disaggregation of the black family in the last 50 years at length.

Even liberals such as Eugene Robinson and Leonard Pitts have confronted the 75% out of wedlock birthrate and the fatherless black family.

A gaze at the major sports leagues gives us good insight as we see the fatherless athletes perpetuating the ongoing cylcle, Shawn Kemp,Terrell Owens, Gary Sheffield,the list is endless. Some don't even know the names of all their brood.

Enough. The point has been made, I believe. Crime festers in such uncontrolled fatherless,matriarchal run environments.

I've been there and seen that with my 20 year day job.

[Crimefree]

If people cannot digest facts then possibly they need education when they prefer feely emotional bull.

It is about time people grew up and stopped just believing because it makes them so easily manipulated. But hey if that is what they prefer who am I to argue.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire.

Once you accept gun control all you can now do is argue over how much to accept this time.

What is "gun crime"? Is this some new invention to get around the problem that crime is crime and it makes little difference what the instrument is. Who invented it?

Do people like repeating gun control slogans and inventions? Do they not check the words they write and say and wonder am I part of the problem or part of the solution? Do they really want to do gun controls work for them?

If you accept gun control you are part of the problem. Really simple is it not. You will destroy all opposition by telling people to be reasonable and satisfy the demands of this incursion or that incursion because they want to feel safe at our expense.

Is our freedom divisible? Is our safety divisible? Should the right to both of these be divisible? How much will you value that right if it is divided and even part made conditional on government largess?

Do the words "shall not be infringed" mean something different in touchy feely language? Well ok if you tell us it is for our own good..... and the constitution is a piece of paper with instructions to government it is not your rights and most certainly not my rights. It gives no rights, they existed before and will always exist until we give them away. You protect your rights not a piece of paper. They are your rights value them like all your possessions. Do not give my rights away I value them more than anyone's feelings.

Firearm, ownership is lost if protected by people who will give our rights away to appease the master and are afraid to object to any gun control.

Not justifiable from a guaranteed reduction of crime or increasing citizens safety, it is inhuman to punish for breaking a useless law that serves government objectives only. No proof, no law.

Otherwise it is just a matter of time before disarmament will happen. The choice is yours or you can deny the validity of what has been written with a belief.

I am reminded of a thief trying to steal the valve caps off your vehicle tyres. You will prevent or apprehend that person without hesitation.

However when our right to safety and freedom is infringed and stolen we watch without saying one word. What should that tell us, our valve caps are worth more then our rights to freedom and safety? Why is that? Never used to be, there was a civil war about that, now forgotten. Lesson must be repeated. Are people not capable of learning from history?

[Crimefree]

Does gun control work?

Well, it does help to ensure that a criminal will not face an armed victim.

Never a more true word spoken. However count your friends who support gun control in one form or the other and see if you can find one firearm owner who rejects gun control and will accept none.

That simple fact should shock us into action because we sit on our butts while gun control justifies what cannot be shown to be valid.

One response here said cannot be proven either way. And I say go away you are of use to firearm owners or our rights when you accept and excuse oppressive unjustified laws. Which gun control law can you prove has any use in increasing public safety or reducing the supply of guns to criminals? Which?

So how does that justify forcing all to jump through hoops to own the best means of self-defence? Who accepts these unjustified laws and makes excuses for doing nothing? Count them. Then ask yourself why and apathy has nothing to do with it. Now define oppression.

The truth is that everyone will chase a person trying to take his tyre value caps. But when his rights are taken from under his nose nothing is done. Excuses are made. Those rights are worth nothing and there is no argument about that. Best we figure out why they are worth nothing and what has replaced those rights because this is an example of Franklin's warning. 'They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.'

Protect your rights, not the guns. No point in promoting sales, sports, hunting, shooting, ownership or anything if you do not value your rights.

Who protects your rights? Government? A piece of paper? Firearm organisations? Subcontract you rights, freedom and safety and see what you get. Look around and see it. Gun control and loss of rights for sleeping on the job expecting somebody else to do it and not doing it yourself. They are your rights, value them or lose them.

[Frustrated..]

Visit here to sign a White House Petition to Solve Gun Violence by Ending Poverty and Treating Mental Illness:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...lness/cG4ZC8ZD

To solve any problem you must get to the root of the issue--the Cause of Gun Violence is Poverty and Mental Illness.

For example, Chicago's poverty rate among black people is #1 in the nation at 32.2% AND Chicago leads the nation in Gun Murders in 2012 (over 500).

Mental Illness = Reason for Mass Shootings and the #1 cause of death in the USA--Suicides.

SOLUTIONS:
-Raise the Federal Minimum Wage: Currently 45% below the 1968 rate AFI.
-Gang/Suicide Prevention: Early school-based social skills training, counseling, mentoring, and parent training for early detection.
-Education Finance Reform: More funding for poorest schools.
-Incentives for Job Creation in poor areas.
-Job Training for at risk youth.
-Drug Treatment costs ~75% less than prison and re-arrest rates are ~26% lower.