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Thread: Had a Debate with my Anti Gun Lawyer

  1. #1
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    Had a Debate with my Anti Gun Lawyer

    I was in my attorneys office the other day and I struck up a conversation with him about the Zimmerman ordeal. The conversation quickly went into other realms of gun talk. He attacked the Assault rifles. I told him he was picking on the guns that commit the least amount of murders every yr. He threw the 90% argument in my face. I told him that was a poll taken in a couple of the most anti gun states we have in the New England area and then pushed to make people think that was how America feels. He disagreed and exclaimed that I must have heard that on a conservative talk radio show. I explained that they tried to push that stat off as NRA members at first, but the NRA members actually polled out at less than 6%. Then we went into suicide. He said the UK doesn't have the suicide rate we do b/c we have so many guns. I asked what about Japan? They don't have any guns, but have the highest suicide rate in the world. He said it was their culture. I agreed , but also threw in that they were pretty efficient at it to not have any guns.

    YAddy, Yaddy, Yaddy.

    Anyways, he threw up a story he read called something like the 11th shot or 11th bullet. It was something like that and the story was about Aurora. A claim was made that the 11th shot was the one that killed the 6 yr old little girl. He then told me that if the shooter only had 10 rnd mags she would still be alive.

    He sort of stumped me there. However, I was in there on business and had that lurking in the back of mind. So I was a little distracted. The more I thought about it the more it seemed like a BS claim. Who was counting the shots fired and who was paying attention to what number bullet killed what number victim? Has anybody else heard of this claim? I searched all over google using various titles and search terms , but came up with nothing.
    Brandon

    Take a kid shooting. They are the future.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruno2 View Post
    I was in my attorneys office the other day and I struck up a conversation with him about the Zimmerman ordeal. The conversation quickly went into other realms of gun talk. He attacked the Assault rifles. I told him he was picking on the guns that commit the least amount of murders every yr. He threw the 90% argument in my face. I told him that was a poll taken in a couple of the most anti gun states we have in the New England area and then pushed to make people think that was how America feels. He disagreed and exclaimed that I must have heard that on a conservative talk radio show. I explained that they tried to push that stat off as NRA members at first, but the NRA members actually polled out at less than 6%. Then we went into suicide. He said the UK doesn't have the suicide rate we do b/c we have so many guns. I asked what about Japan? They don't have any guns, but have the highest suicide rate in the world. He said it was their culture. I agreed , but also threw in that they were pretty efficient at it to not have any guns.

    YAddy, Yaddy, Yaddy.

    Anyways, he threw up a story he read called something like the 11th shot or 11th bullet. It was something like that and the story was about Aurora. A claim was made that the 11th shot was the one that killed the 6 yr old little girl. He then told me that if the shooter only had 10 rnd mags she would still be alive.

    He sort of stumped me there. However, I was in there on business and had that lurking in the back of mind. So I was a little distracted. The more I thought about it the more it seemed like a BS claim. Who was counting the shots fired and who was paying attention to what number bullet killed what number victim? Has anybody else heard of this claim? I searched all over google using various titles and search terms , but came up with nothing.
    You need a better lawyer.
    Robert J. McElwain
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    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

  3. #3
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    First off (and this will resonate with no one that has their mind made up already):

    1. It takes little time to reload.

    2. The entire 11th shot thing is bogus - the fact that he had a higher number of rounds gave folks time to assess / react to the situation. Fer instance, say he had two magazines - the first with one round, the second with 1,000 rounds. Folks would have not had the time / skill / situational awareness to react to a singe shot (was that a tire blowing?), and by the time he stuck the second magazine in...?

    Who is to say how many rounds somebody firing (from a first magazine) will give the average person time to assess / react?
    Some folks may react to the first couple - some folks are probably going to remain clueless after a number of rounds.
    It only becomes class warfare when the working class decides to fight back.
    When they don't, it simply becomes a case of economic genocide.
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  4. #4
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    You can't reason a person out of a position he hasn't reasoned himself into.
    "Gun control is not about public safety, crime reduction, or 'the children.' Gun control is about power. The people have it, and the government would rather they didn't." (An internet poster, not myself.)

  5. #5
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    If you were writing a story to promote a ten round limit on firearm magazines, How many shots would your "bad guy" have fired before getting to the one victim with the highest emotional value?


    I thought so.
    "Why is it, when your kid has an imaginary friend people think they are cute, but if they have an imaginary enemy, they are paraniod?"

  6. #6
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    There was a lot of talk about that 11th round thing but who was there that was able to verify that? I don't think anyone was it was a stunt to get hi-cap mags banned.
    By the way I would have a new lawyer by now.

  7. #7
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    A man intent on murdering a large number of people, including a 6 year old child, is going to run out of ammo because he'll obey a law restricting magazine capacity??
    "Energy and persistence alter all things." - Benjamin Franklin


    Regrets are not usually about what we do - they're usually about what we don't.

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    Bruno - I have to agree with the other posters - get rid of this doofus!
    For what you have to pay this twerp, it's apparent that he isn't giving you your money's worth.

    With his attitude, how would he be able to defend you, should the need arise? Would he even be willing to do so?
    Life Member of both NRA and North American Hunting Club
    “Crime is to be expected since humans are never perfect. But the failure of Justice may be more damaging to Society than the crime itself.” - - Clarence Darrow

  9. #9
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    I kind of started wondering that JT. I use him for civil stuff and he has been pretty good. We are undefeated. However, most of the cases have had my contracts backing them up and were pretty righteous.
    Brandon

    Take a kid shooting. They are the future.

  10. #10
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    You might consider joining the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network? They will give you references for SD lawyers in your area, and provide money / knowledge to get the ball rolling should you ever need them.

    BTW - anybody been reading Ayoob's blogs on the Zimmerman trial?
    http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/Massa...assad+Ayoob%29

    In Part 5 (the gun stuff), he stated he gave O'Mara a 'heads up' AFA what the prosecution would attack regarding the firearm, ammo, how it was carried, etc.

    I watched little of the actual trial (caught numerous reviews each night), but I did watch 'the gun stuff'.
    Apparently they heeded his warning, as they were well prepared to debunk all the hysteria the prosecutors tried to create over SOP AFA guns.
    It only becomes class warfare when the working class decides to fight back.
    When they don't, it simply becomes a case of economic genocide.
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  11. #11
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    Even with a 10 rd magazine the gun would still be a 11 shooter if a round is carried in the chamber. The 1896 Mauser Broomhandle had a 10 rd magazine and the Savage 1907 was the first with a 13 rd double stacked detachable magazine. So they have been around for over 100 yrs.


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  12. #12
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    You can't reason a person out of a position he hasn't reasoned himself into.
    I'll have to remember that one.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore1500 View Post
    If you were writing a story to promote a ten round limit on firearm magazines, How many shots would your "bad guy" have fired before getting to the one victim with the highest emotional value?


    I thought so.
    Spot on.
    Knowing how to handle pressure is necessary for survival.-Admiral James Stockdale

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruno2 View Post
    I was in my attorneys office the other day and I struck up a conversation with him about the Zimmerman ordeal. The conversation quickly went into other realms of gun talk. He attacked the Assault rifles. I told him he was picking on the guns that commit the least amount of murders every yr.

    snip

    He sort of stumped me there. However, I was in there on business and had that lurking in the back of mind. So I was a little distracted. The more I thought about it the more it seemed like a BS claim. Who was counting the shots fired and who was paying attention to what number bullet killed what number victim? Has anybody else heard of this claim? I searched all over google using various titles and search terms , but came up with nothing.
    There seems to be a universal problem that we think a belief and rational thought are one and the same. You can debate with a rational thought but debate is futile with a belief.

    90% of peoples beliefs are wrong.

    If you cannot show VALID reason why something is true it is a belief and it is emotionally based not rational logical thought.

    Rational logical argument has no impact on a belief.

    Throwing facts at the lawyer was not the correct answer. It has to be emotionally based. BTW no gun commits murder. That is a belief. It is also repeating gun control propaganda.

    Something like do you want defenceless victims to just be killed.... Do you think criminals obey laws? How will disarming victims make you feel safer? Will limiting and disarming the law-abiding reduce crime, rehabilitate criminals or impede the criminals getting guns?

  15. #15
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    90% of peoples beliefs are wrong.
    I don't believe that.

    If you cannot show VALID reason...
    That is the crux of most disagreements - what is, or is not, "valid".

    Never-the-less, I do believe that a person (or, at least, some people) expressing emotional positions on some topic, can be affected by rational ideas presented in a rational manor. However, like planting a seed, the fruit of the discussion will come later, at a time when the emotion has subsided.
    "Energy and persistence alter all things." - Benjamin Franklin


    Regrets are not usually about what we do - they're usually about what we don't.

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