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Thread: Smart guns are dumb

  1. #1
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    Smart guns are dumb

    A computer security and firearm enthusiast finds out that a new "smart" gun technology can be defeated with a $15 magnet.

    https://www.cnet.com/news/smart-gun-...cked-firearms/

    "The expectation is that it should be difficult for a child to mount an attack ... it should be at a level that would require a skilled attack," Plore said. "Magnets on the side are not a skilled attack. That's a dumb attack."
    Knowing what I do about electronics and firearms I know that building a "smart" gun is really hard. Hard enough that this is a problem that may never be solved. At least not in my lifetime.
    You can have free speech or you can have income taxes but you cannot have both.

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    They only exist in the movies and in the minds of anti-gun liberals.

    I want my guns as dumb as a post and awaiting input from me for whatever they were designed to do.

    Woody
    http://oklahomafirearmservices.com/
    If the ends sought cannot be achieved through the means granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution, there is neither a need nor the power for the Federal Government to get involved.. B.E.Wood

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    Not something I want either. I would like to have my wife pick up one of my guns if needed or vise versa.

    CD
    De Oppresso Liber

    Iraq: 91,03-06,08, 09,15 & 16'
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    I wonder if a magnet from a hard drive will work as well, and not cost $15 if you salvage it from a dead drive?

    That type gun can fail its user in so many ways, totally defeating the purpose of having a gun in the first place.

    If smart guns are to be mandated, the first to be ordered to use them must be the those who guard the politicians and celebrities. See how long that lasts.
    The only common sense gun regulations were written about 227 years ago.

    Ban gangs, not guns!

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    An idea whose time should never arrive.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

    'Harry Callahan' Magnum Force 1973

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    An idea whose time should never arrive.
    That sums it up perfectly.

    Woody
    http://oklahomafirearmservices.com/
    If the ends sought cannot be achieved through the means granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution, there is neither a need nor the power for the Federal Government to get involved.. B.E.Wood

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    In cases of self defense by relatives, one incident invloved the use of her employer's gun; one invloved use of her boy friend's gun; two invloved the use of guns personally owned by their user.*

    Smart guns that only respond to the owner's fingerprints or a radio signal from a ring or wrist device?

    Three quick downsides:

    Even the simplest gun designs have too many parts that could fail in a life or death situation; adding electronics is just adding more points for failure.

    Stolen smart guns can be converted to dumb guns by criminals.

    Looking at the world-wide stories about basement work shop guns -- Rattles in Sweden, Carlos in Israel, AK22s in India, MAC10s in Australia -- legally mandated "smart guns" could trigger a flood of illegal dumb guns.


    ____________________
    * aside on women, guns and self-defense
    One of the critics of Gary Kleck's National Self-Defense Survey, Tom Smith, declared there had to be something wrong with Kleck's survey because 40% of NSDS self defenders were women but gun ownership surveys showed only 20% of women owned guns.
    Defensive gun use surveys that ask:
    (a) In the past year have you had to use a gun in self defense?
    get different responses than DGU surveys that ask:
    (a) You you own a gun? (If yes, then ask:)
    (b) In the past year have you had to use a gun in self defense?
    Last edited by Carl N. Brown; August 13th, 2017 at 04:40 PM.
    Cogito me cogitare; ergo, cogito me esse.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl N. Brown View Post
    Even the simplest gun designs have too many parts that could fail in a life or death situation; adding electronics is just adding more points for failure.
    Or perhaps electronics can add other "interesting features"? I remember a buddy of mine that loved his paintball guns. One had an electric trigger with selective trigger pressure, and automated rates of fire. Has anyone considered the possibility that someone might take paintball electronic triggers and mate them to a firearm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl N. Brown View Post
    Stolen smart guns can be converted to dumb guns by criminals.
    Yep, and to automatic guns, burst fire guns, and more.

    Ever see those "double" 1911s? I don't mean double stack, where there is a extra wide magazine. I mean it's two 1911's "welded" together to operate from a single trigger? Add some smarts to this and it can select which chamber to fire based on selection switch, some sort of sensor input (is target "warm", then hollow point, is target "small", then shotshell).

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl N. Brown View Post
    Looking at the world-wide stories about basement work shop guns -- Rattles in Sweden, Carlos in Israel, AK22s in India, MAC10s in Australia -- legally mandated "smart guns" could trigger a flood of illegal dumb guns.
    Some of the more difficult parts to make in a common 3D printer is the barrel and firing pin. Give some people a "smart gun" who have access to a 3D printer and time and you could have all kinds of crazy stuff. A remote controlled gun that fits in a soup can? And can fire through the lid on command?

    Give it a few years... months... hours, and not only will smart guns be obsolete it will feed the black market with firearm compatible electronics for all kinds of "toys" of a lethality that can be only imagined now.

    Sure, some smart guns will be made to be dumb guns. Some converted to "smarter" guns. What if instead of not firing a "smarter" gun decides to self destruct upon being fired by an unauthorized user? Use your imagination on how that could be done and the damage that could do to the person that pulled the trigger.

    I don't know what the social and political issues this might raise but I'm not the smartest person on the planet and my mind just flies on the possibilities of how this technology could be used and abused.
    You can have free speech or you can have income taxes but you cannot have both.

  9. #9
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    sdprof noted:

    "That type gun can fail its user in so many ways, totally defeating the purpose of having a gun in the first place."

    Um... that's what they want.

    I had the blood-draining-from-my-face experience of discovering that my little S&W J-frame with the so-called "Hillary Hole" safety switch had somehow switched to "Safe" over the months.

    That's my primary self-defense sidearm.

    If I had need of that gun for defense purposes in all that time, I would not be here right now.

    I removed those parts immediately !

    (There are plenty of videos showing this operation. I call it a Hillaryectomy. )

    I think I'll plug the remaining empty hole with a dab of black RTV. Carefully done, it should look halfway OK without gumming up the rest of the internal works.

    Terry, 230RN

    REF (The "Hillary Hole," or the access point for the internal safety mechanism, appears just above the cylinder latch. Pic credit in properties):
    "Gun control is not about public safety, crime reduction, or 'the children.' Gun control is about power. The people have it, and the government would rather they didn't." (An internet poster, not myself.)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 230RN View Post
    sdprof noted:

    "That type gun can fail its user in so many ways, totally defeating the purpose of having a gun in the first place."

    Um... that's what they want.

    I had the blood-draining-from-my-face experience of discovering that my little S&W J-frame with the so-called "Hillary Hole" safety switch had somehow switched to "Safe" over the months.

    That's my primary self-defense sidearm.

    If I had need of that gun for defense purposes in all that time, I would not be here right now.

    I removed those parts immediately !

    (There are plenty of videos showing this operation. I call it a Hillaryectomy. )

    I think I'll plug the remaining empty hole with a dab of black RTV. Carefully done, it should look halfway OK without gumming up the rest of the internal works.

    Terry, 230RN

    REF (The "Hillary Hole," or the access point for the internal safety mechanism, appears just above the cylinder latch. Pic credit in properties):
    Terry,

    Try some silver colored silicone. Put a tiny plastic or foil disc in the bottom of the hole before you add the silicone and it will keep the silicone from entering the works.

    Woody

    PS: "Hillary Hole" made me verp.
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    If the ends sought cannot be achieved through the means granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution, there is neither a need nor the power for the Federal Government to get involved.. B.E.Wood

  11. #11
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    Yeah, well, fair or not, puns and erotic references aside, that seems to be the accepted nickname for it,

    I should have mentioned the gun pictured isn't mine. Mine's blued, so black RTV would be best. It was just the best descriptive photo of the "Internal Safety Lock" access hole I could find. I carry the key for it on my key chain, but "Hold it, Mr. Gangbanger, I have to unlock my gun before you assault me" ain't gonna work.

    Anyhow, back to the "smart guns are dumb" subject. I just wanted to illustrate a problem with one of those hair-brained schemes.

    It's all just trying to establish "choke points" for gun ownership.
    "Gun control is not about public safety, crime reduction, or 'the children.' Gun control is about power. The people have it, and the government would rather they didn't." (An internet poster, not myself.)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 230RN View Post
    Yeah, well, fair or not, puns and erotic references aside, that seems to be the accepted nickname for it,

    I should have mentioned the gun pictured isn't mine. Mine's blued, so black RTV would be best. It was just the best descriptive photo of the "Internal Safety Lock" access hole I could find. I carry the key for it on my key chain, but "Hold it, Mr. Gangbanger, I have to unlock my gun before you assault me" ain't gonna work.

    Anyhow, back to the "smart guns are dumb" subject. I just wanted to illustrate a problem with one of those hair-brained schemes.

    It's all just trying to establish "choke points" for gun ownership.
    I try not to buy guns with those choke points but it is getting difficult. It is all PC crap, too. I'm not aware of any mandate forcing gun manufacturers to install such "lockouts."

    Woody
    http://oklahomafirearmservices.com/
    If the ends sought cannot be achieved through the means granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution, there is neither a need nor the power for the Federal Government to get involved.. B.E.Wood

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    The word "infringed" has no meaning any more. Or maybe it's the word "not."

    Can't decide which.

    Terry, 230RN
    "Gun control is not about public safety, crime reduction, or 'the children.' Gun control is about power. The people have it, and the government would rather they didn't." (An internet poster, not myself.)

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