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Thread: M1 ammo?

  1. #1
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    M1 ammo?

    Which brand of commercial ammo can I safely use in my M1 Garand 30-06?

  2. #2

    M1 Ammo

    Contact CMP, they will sell you some.

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    The CMP is not selling 30.06 ammo currently -- their stock has not been able to keep up with the orders.

    I ordered some Greek HXP ammo from them earlier this summer, and it was about 120 days from order to delivery.

    So, that's probably driving the question.
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    Yes, CMP is out of ammo except for what they have to fill existing orders. There may be some Greek HXP in the retail channels.

    Winchester (WWB) and Federal American Eagle have a suitable load. I believe Hornaday sells one specifically for the Garand.

    Lee

  5. #5
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    Look at the specs for the Hornady Garand specific loading ... I wouldn't be sticking Win or any other general purpose '06 in my Garands.
    /Bryan

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    Yes, not any "general purpose '06": USA3006 or AE3006M1.

    Lee

  7. #7
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    lmccrock,

    There have been at least three reports of shooters I trust who say that the Federal American Eagle 150 gr. FMJ .30-06 load is TOO HOT for the Garand, based on ejection patterns and glitches with the loading sequence on the rifles.

    Same rifles work perfectly with LC M2 Ball and HXP M2 Ball.

    That tells me that the American Eagle is NO GOOD for the Garand.

    I also can't see the CMP supporting Hornady loading Garand ammo at about $2.00 per round, and the CMP issuing that at the National Matches for Garands and
    Springfields if Federal American Eagle at less than half the price was the proper ammo!

    I have never seen Winchester White Box in .30-06. I did not say it did not exist, just that I have never seen it. But, having never seen it, I have no idea how it would do in a Garand.

    Just went and checked your links above and my manual for GI loads.

    US Ball, M2 has a 152 gr. FB (+0/-3 gr.) bullet moving at 2740 fps +/- 30 fps at 78 feet.

    The link you provided for Winchester shows a 147 gr. FMJBT bullet (the 7.62 X 51 NATO Ball, M80 bullet) moving at 3020 fps at the muzzle. This ammo is TOO FAST and probably over pressure.

    The link you provided for Federal American Eagle shows a 150 gr. FB bullet at 2740 fps at the muzzle. This is a little fast for M2 ball, but THIS LOAD has proven by shooting tests NOT to be good for the Garand. This tells me that it is loaded with powder that is of the wrong pressure for the M1 Garand.

    Buckshot

  8. #8
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    That tells me that the American Eagle is NO GOOD for the Garand.
    Sorry about that. In the 90's, the American Eagle ammo was the go-to ammo for the Garand, if you wanted better than the Vietnam-era LC ammo which was common then. Generally, if Walt Kuleck used it in his M1, it was ok. Of course, Walt's experience was some years ago, and now I see that particular AE load may have changed for the worse in M1's. The Greek HXP ammo became available for cheap and it's groups are half the size of LC in my rifles, so I only ran a couple boxes of AE back then. At the time, the WWB was used without problem by some Garand shooters at the club, but I never did.

    The link you provided for Federal American Eagle shows a 150 gr. FB bullet at 2740 fps at the muzzle
    The M2 spec is 2740 ft/sec, 78ft from the muzzle, so at the muzzle, it would be higher. The later LC ammo (Vietnam era) was not loaded up to spec and one batch was about 2600 ft/sec, 10 feet from muzzle, in my rifles. So, judging pressure by how far a particular batch of LC ammo tossed the brass may not be accurate because that batch may be underloaded. And of course, even if some ammo's velocity spec matches M2 ball, there is no guarantee that it is suitable, because it is the port pressure you care about.

    The conclusion? Now may be the time to begin reloading, even with the scarcity of components. Or get an adjustable gas plug, example here.

    Lee

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    Lee,

    The adjustable gas plug is a crutch for someone too lazy or too much a klutz to reload their own ammo and without enough money to have ammo loaded by a professional small lot loader.

    Buckshot

  10. #10
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    +1 on the Greek surplus. A buddy bought a couple thousand rounds that 1) didn't break the bank, 2) shot reasonably well and 3) wasn't terribly dirty. It won't shoot with quality reloads but not everyone has Dillons or the time and desire to roll their own.... such as my buddy.
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  11. #11
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    "...This is a little fast for M2 ball..." W. W. II vintage M2 ball ran at 2800fps.
    "...Federal American Eagle 150 gr. FMJ .30-06 load is TOO HOT for..." Specifically loaded for M1's at 2740fps. A bit more than .30 M1 ammo's 174.5 grain bullet at 2640fps, a bit less than M2's 152 grain bullet at 2800fps. The FMJBT runs a bit faster than M2 ball. Federal doesn't want to get sued, so they wouldn't advertise it as safe is it isn't.
    Hornady loads M1 specific 168 grain A-Max ammo too.
    "...wouldn't be sticking Win or any other general purpose '06 in my Garands..." Never been any surplus M2 ball available, up here. Shooters used any commercial ammo with no fuss. The box of 220 grain Silvertips I shot did nothing to my rifle. Never saw nor heard of any rifle being damaged by the ammo prior to joining the assorted forums. Nothing, that I've ever read, has ever been written about it either.

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    Never saw nor heard of any rifle being damaged by the ammo prior to joining the assorted forums. Nothing, that I've ever read, has ever been written about it either.
    You've not read very widely in that case - try Google or a Hornady reloading manual with its Garand specific section, separate from the general 30-06 loadings.
    /B

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    Sunray said:

    Never been any surplus M2 ball available, up here. Shooters used any commercial ammo with no fuss. The box of 220 grain Silvertips I shot did nothing to my rifle. Never saw nor heard of any rifle being damaged by the ammo prior to joining the assorted forums. Nothing, that I've ever read, has ever been written about it either.
    Sunray,

    I was once young and dumb (more than 30 years ago) and decided to shoot my Garand with Winchester 190 gr. HPBT Match bullets (yes, Winchester used to make good component bullets available for sale by the box of 100) and used a load of WW 760 powder for it.

    Took it to Camp Perry for a DCM Clinic Shoot. Got off the 10 rounds offhand slow fire at 200 and the rapid fire prone from standing at 200. Took it out to 300 and got started in the standing to sitting 300 yd. rapid fire. Got the string half finished and the rifle quit working.

    Took a look and it had peeled the threads off of the barrel and the gas cylinder, gas cylinder lock and gas cylinder lock screw along with the front sight and the front sight lock screw went downrange.

    That cost a new barrel and installation for it and a new op rod, and I still have the bent op rod out in the shop. Several people have tried to straighten it and it is just not workable.

    So yes, you most definitely CAN use the wrong load and/or the wrong bullet and wreck your op rod and maybe even do more damage than that to your rifle.

    BTW, those same loads were perfectly safe in a Winchester Model 70 and a Springfield M1903, both match rifles.

    Maybe we can get Doc Walt to weigh in with some more stories of this type? I know he is a member here.

    Buckshot

  14. #14
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    M1 ammo - hunting

    Well, I guess I'm "... too lazy or too much a klutz..." to use surplus anymore.
    I'm looking for a commercial hunting bullet (not ball) for hunting WT that could be safely used for both extensive practice first (I've not used my Garand in decades) and then hunting.
    I apologize if I started a "religious discussion" about the correct ammo. I just thought that as a shooter w/limited current knowledge in this area, I could obtain some friendly insight about using my M1 again (see forum rule # 4).

  15. #15
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    m himmel,

    The TYPE of bullet is relatively immaterial!

    You can use a 150 gr. be it FMJ, SP, HP or RN and it can be FB or BT. The WEIGHT of the bullet is what is important. It should be between 150 gr. and 175 gr.

    The other specific is the powder. It should, for absolute safety, be either IMR 4895 or H 4895. There is a narrow window of other acceptable powder also. You NEED to stay in that window.

    It is really not a religious debate in any case. It is whether someone wants to learn to feed their M1 Garand properly or whether they want to destroy parts and have to rebuild it sooner or later.

    HTH,

    Buckshot

  16. #16
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    The problem that beats up and breaks Garands is ammo that develops too much pressure at the point where the bullet passes the operating system bleed off hole. It is not a pressure problem of the nature that blows the rifle up at the chamber; it is too much residual pressure at the bleed off that operates the action too fast.

    The velocity of the bullet is to a large extent immaterial as to 'safety'. The velocity can be perfectly in accordance with G. I. standards, and the pressure in the far end of the barrel still too high.

    Generally speaking, anything loaded to "M2 Ball" specification should be fine for a Garand. (Provided it is really loaded to M2 ball specs, of course. No way to tell looking at the case.)

    The small arms ammunition manual I have specifies IMR 4895 as the proper powder for the .30 caliber M2 ball round.


    The bolt guns don't have the problem as they don't have an operating system based on gas pressure.
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    OK, I understand the weight/type of bullet & also the pressure through the hole on the action. I definitely do not want a bent rod.

    Since I'm not going to use surplus nor reloads, is it at all possible to find a commercial load that uses the proper powder?

    The manual specs u mention are for reloading? Do I understand correctly that it is not possible to determine the type of powder used in a commercial load?

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    OP: First off, you are getting the "friendly advice" you hoped for ... folks are trying to help you avoid trashing your gun or at a minimum, the op rod.

    No - you cannot reliably determine the powder employed in commercial loadings. In general they are not standard commercial, over the counter powders. Bulk powders employed by commercial loaders are *usually* a mix that is blended to achieve the desired characteristics.

    Hornady is the only commercial loading I know of that is specified for safe use in a Garand.
    /B

  19. #19
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    Thank u very much; I followed ur suggestion and found the following (is this what u suggested w/the hollow point that I could safely use?):

    http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/13663/1365

    Hornady Match Ammunition, 30-06 M1 Garand 168 gr A-Max 20 ct
    Hornady Match ammunition is loaded either with A-Max bullets or the high performance boat tail hollow point bullets and are designed to deliver pinpoint accuracy shot after shot. Sold in boxes of 20 cartridges.

  20. #20

    CMP Ammo

    The CMP currently has the Greek 30-06 in stock.
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  21. #21
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    CMP shows SOLD OUT online for the Greek ammo right now. There may be some at the stores, and they say some is incoming, but not online yet.

    FWIW, after my last post in this thread, I emailed Federal about the AE3006M1 ammo, and they claim it is "suitable for the M1 Garand". It took several weeks for them to reply, so I did not post it here right away.

    Lee

  22. #22
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    If my memory serves me.
    The CMP or maybe the DCM used to sell that Federal American Eagle for M1 rifle shooting. They had a contract with Federal back then and sold their .22 rimfire too. Now CMP has some Mexican made ammo. the name of the manufacturer escapes me at this time, sorry.

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