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Thread: Article: Man Arrested For Buying 3 Legal Guns

  1. #1
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    Article: Man Arrested For Buying 3 Legal Guns

    Police act swiftly after gun purchases

    Police act swiftly after gun purchases
    ODOT worker who'd been put on leave is mentally evaluated after buying handguns, AK-47
    By Anita Burke
    Mail Tribune
    March 09, 2010 5:00 AM

    Concerns about an Oregon Department of Transportation employee who purchased several guns after being placed on leave prompted law enforcement across Southern Oregon to step in.

    Negotiators and a SWAT team from Medford police safely took a man whose name wasn't released into protective custody Monday morning in the 500 block of Effie Street, Medford police said in a news release.

    He was taken to Rogue Valley Medical Center for a mental-health evaluation.

    The man recently had been placed on administrative leave from his job and was "very disgruntled," the news release said.

    ODOT Communications Director Patrick Cooney said there were administrative, personnel matters involved that limited what the department could discuss.

    However, the state agency had reported concerns about the man to law enforcement agencies, who started monitoring him, officials said.

    "We had concerning information regarding a personnel issue and were watching the subject," Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said.

    In two days, the man bought a Heckler & Koch .45-caliber universal self-loading handgun, a Walther .380-caliber handgun and an AK-47 assault rifle, Medford police Lt. Bob Hansen said. All of those firearms were purchased legally, with required record checks by the Oregon State Police.

    Authorities were "extremely concerned" that the man may have been planning to retaliate against his employers, the news release said.

    "Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach," OSP Sgt. Jeff Proulx said.

    Douglas and Jackson County sheriff's departments, OSP officers based in both counties and police in Medford and Roseburg collaborated, he said.

    Medford police watched the man's home overnight, starting at about 9 p.m. Sunday, Hansen said.

    Because he was known to have weapons, police wanted to defuse the situation and ensure the man wasn't a danger to himself or others before the neighborhood awakened and people started their daily activities, Hansen said.

    Medford's hostage negotiators and SWAT team were called in at 3 a.m. Monday and arrived on the scene at about 5:45 a.m., he said.

    About a dozen officers responded. They closed the street for about an hour and evacuated three homes to protect neighbors and prevent bystanders from gathering, he said.

    After a phone conversation with negotiators, the man who was alone in the home agreed to come out, Hansen said.

    Police seized the recently purchased firearms, as well as another .45-caliber Heckler & Koch handgun and a 12-gauge shotgun. Police are holding the weapons for safekeeping, but no criminal charges have been filed.

    Reach reporter Anita Burke at 541-776-4485, or e-mail aburke@mailtribune.com.
    Unless other information shows up, someone's about to make a lot of money in a lawsuit!
    .
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  2. #2
    well if he'd been arrested they might be

    the word arrest is only in your heading no where in the article

  3. #3
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    I guess "Protective custody" doesn't count.
    .
    "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on"

  4. #4
    no bail or followup court appearance get your guns back right away by asking.

  5. #5
    might be more accurate to mention that apparently something happened at work vis a vis him getting suspended/fired that led at least on person to be concerned about what he might do. though it makes a less racy thread title. in the interest of accuracy and the truth and all.

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    This does not pass any smell test that I am aware of:

    He was placed on leave.

    He purchased several guns.

    He was forcibly removed from his house against his will,

    He was taken against his will for 'medical evaluation'.

    The term 'arrest' is moot here.
    Call it anything that you want, but the man is being held against his will.

    I would love to see the trumped-up probable cause here, as I cannot believe that it will hold any water when measured against common sense.
    I am concerned that any judge who actually knows the law would issue a warrant on this garbage.

    The article should have been titled 'Police act quickly to eliminate a man's rights'.

    I agree with the thread title, as he is under arrest as far as I am concerned.

    He should make a lot of money from these idiodic bureaucrats.

    Jamie
    Jamie

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  7. #7
    just for giggles what WOULD satisfy you? what would he have had to say or do to make what happened ok? how about "i'm gonna kill you!" or i'm gonna get my gun!" is there some threshold thatb would satisfy or is there none?

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    Arrest for what an individual 'might' do may be acceptable to you, but not to me.

    Probable cause is not based upon 'might', 'maybe', or 'gee;, 'he could...'.

    Even if someone says 'I'm gonna' kill you', words do not constitute breaking the law - actions do.

    My threshold is based upon common sense.
    Jamie

    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

  9. #9
    good well since he wasn't arrested lets try what would constitute a legitimate use og a psych hold? if there is such a thing (legitimate use)

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    "Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach," OSP Sgt. Jeff Proulx said.
    Well, hell's bells, why not be "proactive" all the way and take away all of our guns?

    (Oh, wait, there are actually some who advocate that approach.)
    Lew Wallace was an optimist.

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    Oh, great... now we're going to practice "preventive law enforcement"...
    You "might" commit a crime, so we're going to lock you up and take your guns because some HR wonk gets hysterical.

    Did he get a "fair trial and a first class hanging" to go with this new law enforcement mode? I thought the police intervened during the course of a crime or investigated it after it was over... at least that was how I was taught as a deputy sheriff. Suspicious activity could prompt investigation, but panic drills weren't allowed much.

    Unless a doctor recommended this guy be taken into custody for mental observation, or he broke some laws in acquiring his weapons, it looks to me like this company might have a new owner. I would recommend the HR department start looking for new jobs.

    Any former employee is a potential hazard to cause problems for a company, but simply acquiring weapons doesn't reach any threshold for posing a threat against anybody. I got laid off in January, and have bought a number of guns since then, but only because I had money for it. If this guy got severance pay, he may have been waiting to buy a gun until he had money.

    Think the IRS should be concerned that people are buying guns with their tax refunds? It's one of the biggest "seasons" in the guns stores in our area, and I'll be highly surprised if this guy doesn't end up owning the company that pushed this police action. The police department should have known better, and there were lots of different ways to approach the situation differently.

    It makes me wonder what else the company is doing illegally?

    WT
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    Well, it seems like the company is the Oregon DOT, so any settlement he gets will be taken from the taxpayers of Oregon.

    Parker

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    I agree, this guy is going to get quite the settlement or judgment.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    The police had no arrest or search warrant.
    Which evidently isn't needed, when you place someone in "protective custody" and seize their firearms...

    This interview with Kevin Starrett of Oregon Firearms Federation, sheds more light on this incident.

    Latest from the Mail Tribune:

    Police return weapons to ODOT worker
    The guns were delivered Friday morning
    March 13, 2010 5:00 AM

    Medford police have returned five firearms taken for "safekeeping" Monday morning when their owner was placed in protective custody.

    * * *
    Last edited by Henry Bowman; October 28th, 2010 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Article redacted - copyright

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    He thanked police for returning his legally owned personal property and said he also appreciated the media's interest in the matter.
    Please let this guy be an intelligent and coy individual!

    Pyles surrendered voluntarily to law enforcement personnel and was taken to Rogue Valley Medical Center for a mental-health evaluation that lasted several hours.
    0600 hours, block cordoned off, neighbors evacuated, SWAT team in full gear outside the front door would make anyone submit quickly.
    This excessive force would cause anyone to 'submit voluntarily'.
    I'll also bet that his residence was searched after he was carted of 'voluntarily' for mental health evaluation.
    I am curious if this search was incident to arrest, without a warrant, or i he consented.
    If it was based on his consent, I would argue that he was under duress.

    It concerns me that these tactics have been executed without benefit of probable cause or search warrant.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Looks like the 4A can now be thrown out. No need for these protections.

    Jamie
    Jamie

    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

  16. #16

    hmmm

    I'll also bet that his residence was searched after he was carted of 'voluntarily' for mental health evaluation.

    what would you bet?


    after he voluntarily gave his guns up and left in cuffs what do you think they looked for? in your imagination how many cops went in his home?

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    Well, it seems like the company is the Oregon DOT, so any settlement he gets will be taken from the taxpayers of Oregon.
    Yeah the taxpayer just might get to deliver a payday of epic proprotions to him...courtesy of a handwringing HR wienie. And A "PROACTIVE Enforcement" copper

    He was placed on leave.

    He purchased several guns.

    He was forcibly removed from his house against his will,

    He was taken against his will for 'medical evaluation'.

    The term 'arrest' is moot here.
    Call it anything that you want, but the man is being held against his will.
    dont worry about that pesky paper on your boot...
    A Smith & Wesson Beats Four Aces.

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    That paper is your copy of the Bill of Rights that you threw down.
    Jamie

    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

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    If I fired someone and they promptly bought an AK-47, I'd be concerned.

    But what to do, without violating their rights?

    Maybe he just wanted to relax at the range.
    Maybe he wanted to pop a cap on his boss.

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    http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

    Above is a link to the Oregon Firearms Federation that sheds a few more details on David Pyle's case. The article does raise an interesting comparison between this case and a little movie called Minority Report. In less than a sentence, it was a movie about preventing crime by using a team of three psychics to detect "pre-crime". Stupid science but great thought provoker. Also reminds me of the book 1984, conform or else.

    The government does not like to see strong, free-thinking individuals that exercise their rights and know their laws. Ever wonder why the Tea Party is getting such a strong following? The average American citizen does not trust the government so much that it has become a running joke in our society. Who else in the world can vote for their own pay raise and brag about government mis-spending by "bringing home the bacon". They do not want to call the upcoming tax hike a tax hike, they say it is expiring benefits and start the finger pointing. Meanwhile they go home with unfinished business a week early to raise yet more money to get back in office.

    The case above is just an example of this. There was another case in CA about a man arrested for open carry. He recently won his lawsuit again the San Francisco PD as I recall.

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    No update?
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

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    No update?
    None that I've been able to find. Then again a gun rights person winning doesn't tend to be a favorite to run in the news.
    .
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  23. #23
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    True, if he'd been found guilty of something, every newspaper in the land would have run it is front page news.
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

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    If I fired someone and they promptly bought an AK-47, I'd be concerned.
    1 - it wouldn't be any of your business
    1a - that applies while they are your employee and after you can them

    2 - why the necromancy? do YOU have an update on this case?
    DON'T PANIC

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    This particular battle still rages: my V.A. psychiatrist thinks

    ... that I do not need a letter from her stating it is O.K. TO APPLY FOR A HANDGUN LICENSE. The new, post 9/11 application has a new line,
    "Have you ever been under psychiatric therapy ...", and since 1971 I
    have been in group therapy every six months post Viet Nam. Not
    PTSD, simply group therapy. But the Dr does not give such letters.
    Ever. My Congressman is on ti as we speak. Updates to follow.
    OOOOooooh, he bought a
    universal self-loading handgun, and an Evil Assault rifle. He is guilty de facto !!!!
    "Authorities were extremely concerned..... WHO "Authorities"? Ever heard of the VIth amendment?: WHO ARE MY ACCUSERS?
    QUOTE: "Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach," OSP Sgt. Jeff Proulx said. YUP, THIS SHOULD COST YOU YOUR JOB AND FUTURE BENEFITS.

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