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Thread: Dilemna...

  1. #1
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    Dilemna...

    Yesterday my brother visited on his way back to his house after sniping coyotes. He put his Remington on the rack in the kitchen and sat down to drink the coffee I gave him.

    Halfway through his first cup my daughter stamped up to him and in a voice dripping with 5 year old indignation demanded to know how dare he bring a rifle in the house with the bolt closed and the safety off!

    Should I scold her for raising her voice and being disrespectful to her uncle or praise her for her intolerance of less than safe acts?

  2. #2
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    LOL, that is great! I guess it depends on your 'house rules' for guns. I think it is great your 5 year old knows gun safety.

    Maybe I would teach her a more respectful way of pointing things out.

  3. #3
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    Maybe you should teach her the difference between a loaded gun and an unloaded gun with the bolt closed. Then work on her manners.

    .

  4. #4
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    Maybe you should teach her the difference between a loaded gun and an unloaded gun with the bolt closed. Then work on her manners.

    Uh, sorry Kodiak, in this house any firearm with the bolt closed is loaded. Even if the magazine is in the owner's pocket the weapon is loaded. Even if the owner had just cycled all the cartridges out of it, if the bolt is closed it's loaded. Even if the weapon has had the firing pin and trigger assembly removed and they are locked in the bank vault across the country, if the bolt is closed the weapon is loaded. You may have unloaded firearms in your house, if so more power to you. In my house if the bolt is closed it's loaded. No exceptions, period, end of sentence.

    One of the things my Dad is extremely proud of is that since our ancestors first took possession of this farm in 1866 there has never been an accidental firearm related injury. I do not intend to disappoint him by being the first.

    Did I mention around this house if the bolt is closed the firearm is loaded?

  5. #5
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    Well, I think we can tell where your 5 year old gets her spirit from. If those are the 'house rules', give that kid a cookie for spotting a loaded gun in the kitchen.

  6. #6
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    Sounds like a silly rule, but house rules are house rules, so whatever.

    All guns are "loaded" all the time, is a better rule.

    The standard safety rule is to pick up a gun, open it and check to see if it's loaded, then proceed. When somebody hands you a gun, (even if they have just checked it), you open it and double-check, then proceed.

    Still, I'd discuss manners with your little one. Explain that this is a house rule, and that house rules can differ from safety rules others might follow.

  7. #7
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    Even a five-year old can learn the value and power of soft words. Of course, that lesson should be softly taught.
    “It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.”
    — Thomas Sowell

  8. #8
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    Should I scold her for raising her voice and being disrespectful to her uncle or praise her for her intolerance of less than safe acts?
    How about "You said the right thing dear , but maybe you said it the wrong way"

    Uh, sorry Kodiak, in this house any firearm... is loaded.
    There, fixed it for you
    It is your dissatisfaction with what IS that is the source of all of your unhappiness. Matthew Scudder

  9. #9
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    OW, in training one must accept that sometimes a trainee's skill improves in one area faster than another. Your daughter apparently has safety down, which should give her plenty of time to work on tact.
    Paul
    People have some respect for the complexity of technology. But almost every ignorant fool thinks he understands money and economics.

  10. #10
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    She's five. I'd tell her to use her inside voice, and tell Uncle to make his weapon safe in a safe manner as required by the home owner, please. I'd then tell the little girl good job for spotting a safety issue, and give her a hug for being so safety minded.
    House rules are house rules - if I visit a person and their house rules are that I clear my sidearm in a clearing barrel outside before coming in, fine, I'll abide by the rules if I want to go inside. I also won't be visiting THAT one again, but their house, their rules, period.
    Good job on raising that one, OW, good job indeed.
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

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  11. #11
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    I agree with OW, that is the same rule we use with the kids in our Jr. Smallbore club. If you are not actually down shooting or taking the rifle out of it's transport case (hard to find a case that will let you keep the bolt open without breaking the handle off) THEN THE BOLT IS OPEN.

    The bolt handle serves as a safety, that way they don't have to figure out all of the safeties on the different rifles or get in the habit of depending on those same safeties.

    Five year olds really don't understand the difference yet, a big BAD adult broke a rule she knows and obeys. That is where the "5 year old indignation" comes from.

    She will learn more tact, to control the indignation as she grows up.

    No reward for this particular catch, but no dumping on her, either. An adult broke the rules and she caught it.

    Of course, the THIRD time she catches the same mistake, SHE gets to keep the coyote rifle!

    Buckshot

  12. #12
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    no do not scold her,she needs to know its ok to stand up for what is right, no matter who it is,when in the right then question authority with boldness ...
    Last edited by yenchisks; November 8th, 2010 at 12:10 AM.

  13. #13
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    KodiakBeer, give up now on the house's gun-rules.

    You ain' never gonna win against TWO females. Back out while you still have fur. No lady needs tact to survive handily in this world, and Gentlemen know this. A woman's temper makes a man's heart soft (if he's lucky.)

  14. #14
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    If your daughteer was my granddaughter, I'd give her a big hug for that - and maybe a little talk with her uncle about house gun rules.

  15. #15
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    There's nothing wrong with wanting guns not under direct control cleared.
    If one plans to declare a gun "unloaded" they are responsible for making that condition intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. Open bolts and visible empty chamber/magazine are OK, a chamber flag is better.

    I'd say your daughter did well, only you know if her delivery needs improvement (the rest of us weren't there, although some posters probably think they know exactly what tone and posture was used)
    DON'T PANIC

  16. #16
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    Easy answer!

    praise her for her intolerance of less than safe acts
    Ding ding ding! How would any of us feel if someone who could have prevented an accident didn't because they were too polite?

    There are actually studies on this! ORs, for example, that have authoritarian surgeons and subservient nurses--do they exist anymore?--have a higher error rate than ORs where each member is "empowered" to question the surgeon (on issues of safety, not surgical judgment).

    The first thing I told my sons on arriving at the shooting range (they got the 4 rules before going) was that anyone, even they, must call a cease-fire if they see something unsafe. Don't discourage it, at all!

  17. #17
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    Good kid.

    I would definately reward that behavior, and the only difference is in my house I would say "No yelling at grown ups"
    "Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime."
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  18. #18
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    Small children can be magnifying mirrors of the world around them.

    My parents used to ask each other "Where did he/she/they get THAT [behavior/language] from?"

    Children now have more behavior models (daycare, TV, etc.) than my sibs and I did, so the list of suspects is longer...

    Your daughter apparently has safety down, which should give her plenty of time to work on tact.
    Sigh, I'm in my fifth decade and still going back for periodic refreshers in Remedial Tact

  19. #19
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    Work on the tact thing... "Uncle you left the bolt closed, you owe me a beer!" would have been a better responce.

    Then again I'm a "All guns are Always loaded" kind a guy...

  20. #20
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    mine ARE loaded all the time. except the black powder weapons

  21. #21
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    Not sure it matters so much what the particular loaded/unloaded rules are; but whether the kids should err on the side of safety or politeness.

    (My kids are perfect, of course, so I don't have to choose between the two!)

  22. #22
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    Hi Horse,
    (sorry, I couldn't resist.)

    but whether the kids should err on the side of safety or politeness.
    Exactly, with her father overseas atm the only one to teach her tact is yours truly who's only knowledge of getting a point across is to stab someone with it.

  23. #23
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    Tact is the art of stabbing someone so that they don't particularly mind it. And my suspicion, OW, is that you have not entirely excluded tact from your field manual.

  24. #24
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    Update...

    The other day my brother came over after shooting some domestic geese to try and talk me into cleaning them for him. He put his rifle on the rack and noticed Donna watching him. He immediately opened the breech. Whether the child learned anything is up for grabs but at least my brother seemed to.

  25. #25
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    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

    http://czforumsite.info/

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